I can start to understand this. In my school i am learning 3rd form,Ryotemochi (two hands catching) a technique performed as opponent attempts to prevent the drawing of the sword. As i understand this from my sensei, this was changed slightly to incorporate a punch to the face for us westerners, if i am not moving before my opponent attemps this i always get caught by the punch. This is the case whatever technique i am attempting, i either get caught by the punch, or i am not able to execute the technique (especially against stronger/bigger opponents.
Hi again, Koyo: On these threads we all are guilty of making assumptions about others, so I understand why you feel no need to apologise, having accused me of not reading your postings properly. I know understand how you formed your opinion on universal body language, but can't agree iwht the conclusion you draw. Your ability to 'read' others is not at issue as you are the only valid judge of that. It your claim of their universal ability to read your body language that we differ on, and I guess our different experiences lead us to different conclusions - one nervous man's grimace may be another's arrogant sneer. I believe police receive training here in the UK on such racial differences, so I can't be alone in thinking that they exist. Developing oneself so as not to attract attacks does seem to come with MA experience - very few Dan grades I know attract or seek trouble in this way, but then I guess it is also true that most are also older and less likely to be in clubs, fight over girls etc. etc. To move this forwards a bit: I include within my own approach to 'zanshin', as an element in Aikido as a MA, the Buddhist concept of 'mindfulness'. By watching and modifying our own emotions and behaviour we can achieve a great deal to increase harmony and overcome anger and violent tendencies in others.
Hi Macker welcome Although I personaly do not percieve wrist grabs to be actual attacks (more of a body training method) the principles do apply.As he catches move out to a kuzushi (week point in the attacker's balance) and drive an atemi towards his face this should pre empt or deflect the punch. Having unbalanced him proceed with the technique. Remember NEVER ATTEMPT TO THROW SOMEONE WHO HAS NOT BEEN UNBALANCED PROPERLY FIRST. Do not worry about people being bigger than you anyone over fourteen years old is bigger than me!! Keep on training. Are you a dan grade or kyu. Do not answer if you do not wish to. Koyo
Hi kiaki In aikido there are no stances the art is performed from kamae. However there are two distinct kamae that must become symbiotic.Katachi kamae the posture or more precisely the attitude of the body and Kokoro Kamae the "posture" attitude of the mind. Both must be relaxed and free of intention.Competely allert yet "unconcerned" I think your buddhist influence may be in there.The principle being the more in tune the kamae is the less time there is between seeing an opening and acting upon it.Since we are taliking "zen" a principle of kyudo (archery) is that the bow should never know when the arrow is to go. This is addressing the lapse between seeing and doing.The true benefit of martial arts is that the sensitivity that we develop that allows us to prevail in combat is the same sensitivity that allows us to be compasionate towards others. It is how we choose to use it that defines us. Koyo
Hello Koyo i am a kyu, and my real name is mark (i should get round to changing my user name). From your point about aikido not being a responsive art. I understand this to mean you do not respond after the attack has begun (have i got this right?). because as i have tried to explain if i stand still my opponent will always overwhelm me, especially when they are bigger. If i am bigger i can usually use my greater strength to win back the advantage. This means i must seize the initiative(perceive the intention) and be actually moving before the attacker has attacked. i will practice this tonight!
Hi Mark Yes your understanding is correct. I would suggest that you concentrate on the principles of timing unbalancing and distancing more than the mechanics of the technique.DO NOT BE IN A HURRY the beauty of aikido is that it is a lifelong enjoyable learning experience. Your experience with stronger partners should be of value to you when you train with weeker partners. Teach them what you learn. Koyo aka coyle!!
Dave The book is in the post I would ask that once you have read it that you tear it into small pieces swallow it then set it on fire that way the secrets therein shall remain between us. Your buddy koyo
FIGHTING IN CLUBS OVER GIRLS !! As a responsible aikidoka of many years I can only answer this one way.Let him have one keep the rest for yourself. Works for me!! Koyo
Jeez mate... Not very "aiki" of you (lol) Seriously though; thanks Bill, I look forward to reading it with some enthusiasm. Regards
kiaiki I think you are perhaps being a little too specific with the body language thing. Body language just like the spoken word works on many levels. It's certainly true that in many cultures certain gestures mean different things and will provoke a different response. However there are elements of body language that are universal. And not just across human cultures but across the entire animal kingdom. This is a well documented fact. We can all easily recognise basic emotions which are expressed in our body language.
Koyo - Hi. You said there are no stances in Aikido...'Stance' and 'posture' are pretty much the same in English, but maybe you have learned to use them for separate things in your training? I haven't so I can't split that particular hair. Aren't you being a bit pedantic? My Sensei was trained in Yoshinkan by Shioda in Japan, so I can only go by my training and the language he uses in his books: Total Aikido p.30 headed KAMEA BASIC STANCE, then in the next line he explains 'The basic posture that will allow you to develop breath power'. In other words, the terms are used interchangeably by one of Ueshiba's principal students. Here's a Googled definition which interestingly mentions the attitude of mind as well: 'The attitude or position of a standing person or animal, especially the position assumed by an athlete preparatory to action. See synonyms at posture. Mental posture; point of view: “Peru … has also toughened its stance toward foreign investors” (Abraham F. Lowenthal).' I've seen 'zanshin' which i understand as 'awareness' as a key element in the art being 'martial' and your explanation of a mental kamae does indeed show a distinct priciple: As the mind governs the body's posture, it is vital that the mental and physical kamae are in harmony. The key IMHO is that we have to conquer our own mind and its control before we should seek to conquer anyone else's - what the Buddhists call the 'rogue elephant of our mind'. Constantly watching your own mind and observing anger etc is pretty dirty work, but worth the journey to reduce the negative emotions we all suffer from such as fear, jealousy, anger etc etc. I would ask anyone reading to try it for a couple of hours. I'm still working on it, but that's OK because as a Buddhist I've got lots of future lives to get better at it!
Aikiwolfie : Hi. The generalised claims about universal body language weren't mine to prove or disprove as the assertion was made and applied to all. Later this narrowed to a view derived from direct experience - which is fine, now we know that. I concede that a few threat gestures may be common, but unless you can show me universal use of body language I feel entitled to query the assertion. In the same way, I query the latest: that Aikido has no stances. (I'm sort of feeling that I'm being talked down to here, rather than our customary 'IMHO' approach.)
The use of the word kamae rather than dachi which means stance is to emphasise that there are no stances such as kiba dachi zenkutsu dachi etc as used in karate.Beginners may often confuse the two. Remember I am speaking from the martial art of aikido point of view.Having seen yoshinkan I can unsderstand your interpretation of stance. My teachers who were all taught by O Sensei all stressed that there are no stances in aikido that it performed from a triangular posture. If making a distinction between the two helps in my training then I shall do that.As to talking down I have stated that these are my thoughts and offer them sincerely should people wish to act upon them or ignore them I have no problem with that.Enoida shihan the tiger of shotokan karate wrote an article for fighting arts entitled there are no stances in karate!!! Koyo
Shioda Sensei uses Kamae and in his book, tranlated as the word Stance. Are you saying he is wrong and you are right or that you understand the word better than him in an Aikido context? Have a bit of humility, mate ! You seem to be coming across on this thread, which you started, as knowing all the answers and passing down the tablets to we mere mortals. I think i prefer to believe that there is room for interpretation, rather than a lecture from 'on high'. Kisshomaru ueshiba also uses the words 'Stance' and 'Posture' in his section on Kamae interchangeably in his book 'Aikido' (p. 18-19). guess he must be wrong too. We can all bandy about a bit of japanese. How about 'hanmi handachi' as a starter? You still think we have no 'dachi' in Aikido? When we ask our students to take a particluar kamae, does it matter if they think 'posture' or 'stance' as long as they respond to the word 'kamae' correctly? If we teach in English, it still matters little.
I am saying that Saito shihan Nakazono shihan and I could mention many others all said that there are no stances in aikido and I heard it directly from them. I have never trained in yoshinkan and therefor have nothing to say regarding Shihan shioda's interpretation. To assert that I think I know better than Shioda shihan is ridiculous.As for teaching from on high again I am stating what I feel as does everyone on this thread and it is their choice if they accept it or not plus I often say try it for yourself or find out for your self I do not wish to impose my views on anyone who is not receptive to them. Koyo
Koyo - You are still asserting all sorts but not using any of the tools needed for calm discussion on MAP. Your replies often evade what was said: If Kisshomaru uses 'stance' consistently, what has that to do with Yoshinkan? Perhaps your own Shihan were trying to eplain that Aikido is about movement, rather than static poses, by stating that (as we learn to be dynamic in our Aikido) we should never be in a static stance/posture? When I entered MAP I was told off roundly for not using 'IMHO' when I was stating opinion rather than fact - in each posting! Ask Dave Humm - he was my chief critic in that respect! Your points are well made but you need to apply such a convention on a forum to avoid coming across as pedantic and pushy. Yes, state what you feel and lace it with facts (which we have all found useful, I hope) , but it would have come across much better had you started the posting by stating that 'according to Saito, there are no stances in Aikido' and then asked for views. You come across as telling rather than debating. Sorry, but that's how it seems to me.
As you suggested I shall ask David Humm as I am new to these forums. O K David what is the proper etiquette for posting on these forums. Koyo
Koyo: I'm sure from what I've read so far that your Aikido experience and knowledge has a huge amount to offer us on these forums. Please don't think I am being overly picky, as we all get into trouble from time to time, including me . Moderators guide us (rap our knuckles) and although Dave is a true gent, the question of forum etiquette is probably better directed towards a moderator..or consult the 'sticky' items and FAQ. My reference to Dave was because he brought me into line over that one specific issue - how to communicate that my words in each posting are an opinion or that I am making factual statements. If you don't then readers may interpret opinion as an assertion of fact, which they will then challenge you to prove. My own guidance would be: If a statement is fact, give a source. If a statement is reflecting another's opinion, such as Saito's , give source info. If your statement is your own, say so and be prepared to back it up with sound argument. Remember, we can't hear your tone of voice, so we also need other little hints, smileys etc to give a context to our postings.
I tend to speak as I do when leading a training session which is positively and directly, My main concern is seeing young aikidoka training away a times IMHO incorrectly. My intent is not to teach them as I firmly believe that it is up to each student to seak out the truths of his chosen art for himself.What I am hoping to do is nudge them in a direction which I found of value in the hope that they shall discover something for themselves. My statements are not opinions they are (personal )beliefs which I would not force upon anyone however they are based on been told them, shown them then putting them into practice myself and finding them (for me ) to be effective. Everything of value I have learned training in a number of martial arts has been from listening to and watching shihan of those arts and then discovering the truths of these principles for myself. As for my expresion most of the time I just look washed out but I am smiling inside. Regards koyo the icon is me trying to smile makotokai.co.uk
Funny how my name keeps getting mentioned LOL I should do this for a living and charge you all for the copyright infringement every time you mention my name The problem with this thing called the 'tinternet is that whilst it is truly one hell of a fantastic medium for communication, like so many things brought to us "fast" it very often lacks the humanisation found in actual interaction or, the perceived warmth of friendship through the written word - simply because although we often share a common interest we really don't know each other.. Actually I'm a 13 year old Japanese school girl named Takizawa Misuzu (but that's another story) Opinions are like ****-holes, we all got 'em and like them or not we really have to accept that not everyone will agree with each other however; fact on the other hand is an entirely different animal and, when we post in a manor depicting factual information we must all be prepared to substantiate what we present. I hold this particular high ground simply because there are already far too many martial arts forums discussing the same stuff with people pontificating all sorts of absolute ****e, opinions are fantastic but opinion based upon factual information is by far the best source. Regards
