It always weirds me out when someone decides to talk in the third person. Well then, I guess you do know what discrimination is like, and yet it hasn't stopped you from becoming that way yourself. Sad. At least I have the comfort of knowing that you don't live on the same land mass. Do me a favour and never leave your island.
That was about 2% away from the level of personal attack that will land you in the sin bin. Enough already.
haha, this thread is hilarious. I think all women should check out this totally PC statement from Mr. Chormernly Warner (btw - THIS IS A JOKE!): "PLEASE READ TEXT FIRST!! After years of research, scientists have discovered that women do not like the standard mouse given away with PC's. They found that there is not a physical reason for their aversion; it is more of a psychological problem. Some women reported that the mouse 'just didn't feel right' in their hands. Based on the research, a new mouse has been designed especially for women. Various field tests have been carried out on the new design, here are some of the testimonials: Julie from Hawthorn: "It feels so much better. More comfortable, more like how it's supposed to be". Susan from Kew added: "I think mice were originally designed just for men, but this new type is definitely made for women. It fits right in with my lifestyle". Hillary from South Yarra: "I took to it like a duck to water, every woman should have one!!" " :Angel: :Angel: REMEMBER: IT'S A JOKE!
"Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Jamaica Posts: 1,249 " Last I checked Jamaica wasn't part of the states...
I DEFINITELY disagree. The idea of push ups is to make you stronger, not to make such drastic and ridiculous allowances for your supposed weaknesses that they are severely exacerbated. Anyway, we really are not all that weak that we need to adjust exercises such as push ups. I have a classical so called feminine physique - slim with a heavyset lower section - and I can do normal push ups without any difficulty. Wake up comrade - the fitness industry (and much of society) is keeping us oppressed by feeding us this utter malarkey. Let us rise up and tear the system down!!!!!!! *draws back fist for Gyaku zuki*
I dont think its about adjusting exercises due to weakness. I dont consider my shape a weakness just because its different to that of a guy. But it IS different. Press ups are an exercise designed by men to make men stronger, concentrating on the upper body, which is usually more developed than ours. Sure, we can do them, but it may not be the best way to make us stronger. But WE have to conform to THEIR standards, have to prove that we are just as good as them (plus a little bit more, of course ), using techniques that were specifically designed for THEM. Perish the thought that someone should develop exercises that actually concentrate on specifically making a WOMAN stronger, make them the standard, and watch the guys struggle. It's never gonna happen, because the system is, and always has been, run by men, for men. Dont get me wrong. I hate it when they push some 99lb scrawny 14 year old boy until he throws up, just because he's a boy and think I'm gonna break just because I'm a girl, despite the fact that I'm clearly far more able to take it than he is. But I also hate it that that the man's physique is seen as the standard by which we are all judged and that we have to prove that we are as 'good' as them by competing in their world, because anything that women excel over men in (not ironing Adam..) is seen as being weaker and less important. I know exactly how good I am and dont feel the need to prove it to anyone. If they're dumb enough to underestimate me just because I'm a woman they will learn..
haha, this is one of the most interesting threads i've read in a long while, drama, action, suspense, and comedy ... this site is awesometastic!
If we leave out the fact that classic pushups don't really make anyone much stronger since its strength-endurance after a certain point, what exercise would you use instead of pushups if you had the option? Women are NOT at a disadvantage when it comes to doing pushups. But (and I'm not saying this because I'm sexist!) men ON AVERAGE have better adjusted nervous systems making them able to perform more with x amount of muscles. (This is credited to the typically more active lifestyle of men, and should not be considered absolute, as many women are equal if not superior to men considering neuro-pathway development). And thats why women (again) ON AVERAGE perform fewer pushups then men. So, imo the solution is not to make men do pushups and women do bodyweight squats, as one might think from parts of this discussion, but practice (strength is a skill that needs to be practiced, so some people are actually "better at pushups" then others who have done them less without neccesarily being stronger) doing them. The famous and controversial "Method" that was used by a group here on the H&F forum a while back can be used to even the playing ground, pushup wise. Bottom line: IMHO male vs female anatomy has little to do with pushup performance. P.S. That did not look so long in my head, lots of rambling I guess
haha, you don't even win at ironing, I think the world extreme ironing champions are blokes! The idea of having exercises for women and for men is ridiculous. We have virtually the same structures physiologically, and a forward pushing action is a forward pushing action, it works mainly the pectorals and the triceps for both men and women. There is barely any difference between men and women in this instance, but women need to work harder at them to get stronger because usually their strength base is not as good as a mans. Please give me an example of an exercise that is more designed for women than for men, and tell me why women would excel and men would struggle. And what "system" is this you're talking about? Exercise and resistance training has been around since the dawn of time, and there are many universal truths about it. As to being weaker - women are weaker, face it, obviously not all women but compare the average man to the average woman and the man will always be stronger. Maximal strength and nearly all physical output capabilities are more advanced in men. It's natural. Women in general have less potential to get bigger and stronger, and that is fact. It is not some "prejudiced male system", it's life. Glenchuy - you happen to have come in on one of the more eventful threads
That's interesting, thanks your comments. That's a fair point, I cant come up with a better alternative, although I admit that sports science isnt my forte! You sound like you know your stuff wrt fitness, so I have question for you. It might sound silly, but bear with me! Exactly what is the point of doing pressups (apart from to destroy the will to live of course! )? I know that they work a lot of the abdominal muscles, but I always thought that they mostly worked the upper body; arms and chest muscles. Hence my assertion that men have an advantage as they usually have better developed upper bodies. Is this not the case then? Also, I'm afraid I'm still not convinced that the weight distribution thing wouldnt be a problem. Logically, I dont see how having most of your weight supported by your arms woudnt give you an advantage over someone who's weight is in the middle and unsupported. I'm not trying to say that women CANT do them, that's obviously not the case, just that I still think it's a disadvantage. I am quite open to persuasion, convince me! Edit: Sorry Adam, you posted after I started my response.
With refard to this press up thing. I started to train in my room when I was at uni. My upper body strength was non-existant, so I had to start with my knees on the ground. That was until I had built up the strength to do press ups from my toes. It was a bit of a blow to my male ego, but I got over it. P.S. I'm much better at ironing than my fiancée.
Heh, only men would think of competing in something as dull as ironing! As I said earlier, I'm not a sports science expert, and I cant really come up with an alternative, but (off the top of my head) as far as exercises that women excel in, pretty much anything that involves flexibility, women usually do better at. Most of the guys in my class really struggle and it seems to take them longer to attain the same degree of flexibility. The well-built stocky guys seem to find this particularly difficult. Heh, man, I'm really not sure where I'm going with this, but it seemed to get out of hand pretty quickly! I guess my original point was that I feel that the distribution of weight makes pushups more challenging for women than a guy of equal size and strength. I appreciate peoples input on this, you obviously are more fitness experts than I am, but I still feel that there hasnt been a convincing argument to dissuade me on this point. The rest of it was just a general rant really, not just about fitness. Like it or not, society is still run on a patriarchal system and I really dont see why I should have to prove myself better than someone else just because of what they have between their legs. Totally off topic, I'll shut up now.
No-one starches a collar like me. http://www.extremeironing.com/ I'm sure everyone here can do more pushups, however!
Men and women come in all shapes and sizes. The distribution of weight has little to do with how many push ups you can do because 1. the distribution is similar anyway, the "pear shape" idea just will not make a significant difference IMO 2. the average man is heavier than the average woman, so if you want to talk about weight distribution then men have an overall disadvantage, there is just more weight there! Yes, strength and lean weight are proportional usually, but I still think there is very little difference. As to the flexibility point, this is a total myth perpetuated by people who don't really know what they're talking about, as you so stated. Bodybuilders are often very flexible, the opposite to what most people think. Having muscle does not mean you are "muscle bound" unless the muscles actually restrict the range of motion physically. Women have a very small advantage with certain flexibility attributes in the legs due to a small difference in the anatomy, but aside from that men can be equally as flexible as women with similar training efforts.
Good point with the press ups NJB, I think. Women and men are different indeed, a coach told me that women probably have the capacity to do better than men at jiu jitus because of the superior hip strenght and flexibility etc. But hey, we're better at ironing! I'm studying in the US, my home is in Jamaica. The chances of me running into you are negligible. Please, chill the hec out. And I'm not sexist.
Ok. Thanks. I was actually not thinking so much in terms of how many push-ups you can do per se, so much as any additional effort by other muscle groups needed to support the weight in the middle before you've even started, but I guess I'm not explaining myself too well. I appreciate your answer, but I just cant get my head round the idea that this mass of unsupported weight in the middle, as opposed to a mass of weight at one end, over the arms, wouldnt have an effect, especially given that women usually have less well developed upper bodies. I agree that the average man is heavier than the average woman, but would a good bit of that weight not be made up by muscle mass, therefore contributing towards the support of that additional weight, and woudnt it be less likely to be based around the hips? Most guys I know have relatively slim hips, regardless of their size. Unless the guy was very overweight, in which case the weight would be built up around the abdomen. Fair enough, I concur to your greater expertise in this field. But my opinion was based on personal observation and experience, not quotation of urban fallacies. Maybe it was the types of stretches that were done, or the types of other exercise that people were doing outside class, but the men did have noticeably more difficulty with the stretching. Even the guys who had very flexible legs were struggling with stretching in other parts of the body. Thanks for your response Adam, I'm always glad to learn new stuff! Anyway, I guess I've derailed this thread long enough!
