why is chi kung rubbish

Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by leftwingtaoist, Dec 12, 2011.

  1. leftwingtaoist

    leftwingtaoist Valued Member

    As I promised here is a chi kung spitting thread. I would ask all of those who feel need to vent whatever frustration they have by spitting on chi kung without knowledge or experience of it, to do it here and not pollute other threads.
    For owners and moderators:
    I don’t understand people who have no interest in chi qung, who have never tried it and have no experience in it, but who are still logging into every discussion about chi kung, in order to flood it with rubbish and prevent anyone who is genuinely interested in the topic from participating. This reminds me of little bullies in playground who enjoy spoiling other kid’s games, especially if they don’t understand them. I can understand that in 5 year olds. I can’t understand this in grownups.

    This kind of behavior on the board drives people off the board and makes for poor and boring content. If the board area is traditional healing or internal martial arts, and over 50% of all the content is written by a small group of people who for some reason have nothing better to do but to write “this is all rubbish and I don’t like it” kind of posts, this will make people leave the board and go somewhere else where they will not feel bullied or just bored. As a consequence your site might suffer.
    Is there a chance to appoint a moderator for these board areas who actually know something about the subject, have experience in practicing things that people talk about within that board area and actually want to encourage the discussion rather that kill it?
     
  2. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Because people value the truth and the honest exploration of what is true about the universe. They don't like seeing pseudo-science and woo-woo nonsense perpetrated.
    It's called "conversational intolerance" and it's a way of combating nonsense in all forms (not just the nonsense you happen to like).
    It happens to conspiracy theories, alt-med, sexism etc etc.
    If you can't adequately back up what you are asserting you will be called on it and that's as it should be.
    Doing so makes this forum better not worse.
     
  3. robin101

    robin101 Working the always shift.

    i remember the last "Special" chi gung post we had, was for taiji lou, and we all remember what a great debater and conversationalist he was.

    but seriously, if you cant take people challenging your assertions, or beleifs then go to a chi gung board, and talk about it there. But in the same way we would not expect you to ignore someone claiming they were friends with a dragon, dont expect us to just sit back and ignore it when someone claims something we strongly beleive to be a fantasy is the truth.

    If you claim , "internal martial arts are a form of exersize and relaxation that gently works muscle groups, and teaches balance and the use of weight distribution for martial activity and health" that is no problem, the health benifits of tai chi have been scientifically proven.

    However if you claim "chi gung gives you access to paranormal abilities or an unkown force that flows through the universe and can make you unaturally strong, heal wounds in yourself and others, or move objects without touching them", then you are mistaken in beleiving that we will not argue with this.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2011
  4. leftwingtaoist

    leftwingtaoist Valued Member

    pasmith

    If you believe that comments based on beliefs and not on knowledge or experience are enriching this site then I was wrong about the purpose of this site. You call it: “conversational intolerance and it's a way of combating nonsense in all forms (not just the nonsense you happen to like).” I call it rule of ignorance where mob decides what is right and what is wrong based on lowest common denominator. I am still trying to see one valid counter argument based on personal experience. This is martial arts boards, try it then talk about it.
    You might as well close the internal martial arts section and traditional medicine section, because with this kind of attitude it is basically just a bullying trap. You lure people who are genuinely interested in those topics in to be subjected to a barrage of spitting and insults.
    These kinds of comments will not sway me, because I know what I know I can just laugh at all of it. It will probably make me not want to come to this board very often again, because I don’t want to waste my time and energy in spitting duels. I have better things to be doing with my life.
    But this kind of general attitude will completely discourage people who might greatly benefit from chi kung, both as a healing practice and as a martial practice. I am not talking about magic here, and I never did. Buy the way definition of magic is “things that work in a way that we don’t understand”. For my grandmother even a phone was magic.
     
  5. Jabby Mcgee

    Jabby Mcgee Valued Member

    This is the problem. In any conversation dealing with the veracity of something, personal experience doesn;t cut it, because how can that be quantified. Only what is measurable and quantifiable can be regarded, or else I can say "I once met a man who could bend a car in half using his testicles, and he told me it was because he had a lot of chi". Who can deny that that did happen? On the other hand, who can prove it's veracity in either direction. If we can't measure it, we can't regard it.
     
  6. Oddsbodskins

    Oddsbodskins Troll hunter 2nd Class

    Right for one thing personal experience is an incredibly unreliable source of evidence. People are definitely fallible. As to no-one refuting your points reasonably, Slipthejab, Melbgoju and Hannibal all raised reasonable doubts which you did not respond to. If your debating practice is to ignore what you can't counter and seize the moral high ground against everyone else then I wish you well in politics, but don't particularly wish to engage you or your passive-aggressive protest thread in debate.
     
  7. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Personal experience is pretty much hands down the worst basis for forming an opinion or argument. It can be a spring board but it's never the end when forming an opinion.
    If we go with believing personal experience then literally EVERYTHING ever said by a human should be considered true.

    Yeah because it's being applied to something you hold dear.
    Do you feel the same when people laugh at people that think Elvis is still alive?
    Or that alien grey's kidnapped them and probed their anuses?
    People that have seen ghosts or jesus incarnate?
    I doubt it.
     
  8. leftwingtaoist

    leftwingtaoist Valued Member

    When I say personal experience I don't mean my personal experience but yours. You try it, and then tell me what your experience with it was. I am providing information for people who might be interested to try it themselves.
    The argument that I hear here is as if I went and started rubbishing BJJ because I read it is crap on a kung fu websites, but I have never tried BJJ and I know nothing about it.
    Pasmith you say:
    Yeah because it's being applied to something you hold dear.

    I don’t hold Chi kung dear. For me this is not a religion as negating it seems to be a religion to you. this is not a my god is better than your god argument.
    Pasmith you also say:
    Do you feel the same when people laugh at people that think Elvis is still alive?
    Or that alien grey's kidnapped them and probed their anuses?
    People that have seen ghosts or jesus incarnate?
    I doubt it.
    Your problem is that you are equating these things with Chi Qung. What can I say to this?
     
  9. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    MAP ia a discussion board; people will post opinions and will in turn have those opinions held up to scrutiny. This is not going to change. If that environmet is not one that you enjoy, then I'm sure there are many internet boards where you can post in a different ambience.

    MAP has one thread where you can discuss Chi etc without sceptics interrupting, use that if you need to. Otherwise you'll have to put up with others voicing their opinion.

    MAP is happy to live with any decrease in traffic this may cause.

    Mitch
     
  10. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Your problem is that you AREN'T equating chi gung with these things.
    Most people do this of course with things they hold dear.
    You mention religion. Many people think their religion is true while everyone else's religions are superstitious nonsense and untrue. Even though they are exactly the same, have comparable levels of evidence and just as much personal experience going for them.
     
  11. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    That's a common tactic in the world or alt-med and such things and is fundamentaly flawed.
    No one lives like that.
    YOU don't live like that.
    Everyone makes judgements on what to try based on the evidence around them (from multiple sources).
    You can't try everything before judging whether something is worth doing or not. There isn't the time for one.
     
  12. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Chi Gung is a perfectly valid way to practice controlled breathing and to relax the body. It gives one good "feel" and by focusing in such a manner allows for greater levels of biotensegrity.

    It has absolutely nothing to do with an outdated, outmoded, unproven and most likely non existent commodity such as "chi energy"

    Leftwing you have offered no rebuttals so the only one who cannot debate here is you - disagreeing is not "mob rule" nor is asking for proof beyond anecdote and persoanl experience (the latter being the single worst thing to base the veracity of ANY assertion on).

    "I like" is opinion or taste; "It is" is a statement of fact - you may need to decide which you are putting forward
     
  13. leftwingtaoist

    leftwingtaoist Valued Member

    hannibal you say:

    Leftwing you have offered no rebuttals so the only one who cannot debate here is you

    what exactly am i supposed to do? what evidence for your opinion have all of you proposed that i need to counter?

    and also i have never not once used "I like" argument. it is the opposite. all i hear here as a response to my posts is "I don't like" argument.

    pasmith you say:

    You can't try everything before judging whether something is worth doing or not. There isn't the time for one.

    this is great. you are using laziness as an excuse for ignorance. kung fu means hard work.
     
  14. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Hahah...yeah mate. I'm lazy. So lazy that I haven't tried everything in the world. Should probably get up earlier.
     
  15. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    You get enough sleep when you're dead man! :p


    Leftwing, all you need to do is come up with some proof that what you believe exists, it's really not any more complicated than that. This is the reason we have Atheists.

    Also, I knew BJJ was going to come up in this thread. BJJ backs up (most of) it's claims as do many martial arts.
     
  16. leftwingtaoist

    leftwingtaoist Valued Member

    i have no problem with bjj. its a great example of an internal martial arts as one of the posts in internal martial arts :)

    as for proof, go and read the post about how chi kung affects bone growth. to start.
     
  17. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Is that the one where it also states that any other form of exercise will do the same thing?
     
  18. leftwingtaoist

    leftwingtaoist Valued Member

    did i state that? spend time reading the posts, think about it. then come back and we can talk. this is a waste of time for both of us.
     
  19. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I'd say it's more of a waste of time for me, because Chi doesn't exist. :)
     
  20. leftwingtaoist

    leftwingtaoist Valued Member

    do you feel happier now that you made that statement? this is why i started this thread as a therapy for people who can't stop themselves from repeating "chi does not exist"

    you say reading is a waste of time and your moto is "he who learns wins"??? i think you should change it to "i don't need to learn anything any more i already know everything"

    by the way this is attitude of my five year old son.
     

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