Side Kicks ... Heel or Blade of Foot ?

ok I TOTALY dragged This thread off topic (sorry) thought I would ask others opinions and what they have been taught and what works the best for them .

I say heel .. have been taught heel and cant seem to wrap my little brain around the blade of the foot thing ...

this is not a troll attempt ! I am serious and would like to know the rational behind it with out being off topic .. hence the new thread .

 

I forget. I think at my school we learn how to do a sidekick 2 different ways.

I know one of the ways is the heel.

 

just for the record you dont have to like me to answer

 

As on the other thread,what was a side kick and what is a side kick are different now,changed over time.

It was the blade for me in TKD,hapkido,Shotokan,Kenpo and American Combat karate (Goju).

The heel was used in the heel kick/back kick.

Today both versions of the side kick seem to be taught and accepted.

The side kick using the Blade is a wide edge so it is not as penetrating as the heel kick which is more target specific,both kicks can be delivered with good stopping power.
(just as an outside cresent kick is taught to use the edge and slap,while some school teach turning the toes out on an outside cresent and making contact with a more defined focus,using the toes,as seen on the cover of the Oct 05 Black belt mag,also page 74,pic 2, of that issue shows a blade edge side kick,but it is moo duk kwon)

The side kick with the edge also presents a closer target by about 3 inches as compared to a side kick with the heel.

When doing the Jumping side kick,what is used?
The edge/blade.
If one tried to make contact with the heel the jumping kick would be a jumping back kick not a jumping side kick.

Again,as long as what you are taught works when needed then it is a good technique.

 

What about the ball of the foot? Thats what I use.

 

if you use the ball of the foot while trying to do a side kick- youll most likley break your foot

 

use different tools for different jobs, no point trying to cut paper with a hammer, also no point hammering a nail with a knive.

 

We favour the heel!

My teacher, Master Hwang In-Shik, taught me in the early years of my training that since hapkido emphasizes weight commitment and power over quick snapping movements that kicking with the blade of your foot is a good way to break a bone or sprain an ankle. I can see using the blade for special applications but we never were taught any side kick applications formally so I have to think that it is not the orthodox way of performing this particular kick.

Master Hwang is the Chief Instructor for the World Hapkido Association and was formally the Chief Instructor at the headquarters of the Korea Hapkido Federation so I am thinking that what he is teaching is probably considered 'conventional' in Korean hapkido circles however there is considerable variation in many hapkidoists' way of performing techniques.

I, myself, sometimes employ footblade with side kicks which are meant as 'checks' to my opponent's techniques but try to use the heel for any fully committed side kick. The heel forms a straight line with the leg so it is easier to line up your full power behind it without having your foot pushed back toward yourself on heavy contact with weight commitment.

I don't think that this means that footblade sidekicks cannot be effectively employed but rather that they are more frequently used in arts which emphasize precision over power and are used more typically with arts that prefer a snapping delivery rather than a delivery with lots of forward weight commitment which is one of the characteristics of our hapkido.

 

also keep in mind that a heel can pentrate the guard more easily than the side of the foot. i.e. if you catch an elbow to the side of your foot on a powerful dedicated side kick you can hurt yourself more than the person you are trying to kick.

your heel can take the hard contact much better.

 

We use the heel for placement. I've found when employing the blde, I have a habit of "Swooping" my kicks as opposed to chambering well. This would enable an attacker to close on me and trap my foot, With a nice chamber the first thing they meet is the heel of my foot, whether extended or not. Granted the blade comes in handy in nasty stuff like break and push kicks, but...heh, heel in general.

 

It's purely situational if you speak of application.

Heel: More obvious, but deliver more punishment. You can also kick higher with the heel, as you can slightly adjust your foot-angle.

Blade of foot: Faster, and good for checking/faking guards. In Karate they translate it as a "side-snap kick". I'd say that it's also effective for flashing your opponent; it can come and return faster than a round-house/turning kick, when executed properly.

It's very true, too, considering the "odd" foot placement, to the direction of force. Generally, I don't prefer it, as it uses too much energy for the speed and lower power it exerts. For point-sparring, it's an OK.


And for the above poster, that's what we'd technically call a hook-kick. However, your use of the re-chambering, as an added weapon, is alright.

 

Wow, that is a new one for me...never heard of it.

Seems to me that you would lose a heck of alot of power in the strike and end up doing more of a push kick with the ball, then if you struck with the blade (the correct way in TKD IMHO and personal experience) or with the heel (should be used for a back kick instead in TKD...again IMHO).

If you have not tried it, try doing it with the blade (or heel if you find it too awkward) and see if that does not make your strikes way more powerful.

Alternatively you could tell me to go jump off a bridge...whichever works better for you, as this is a Hapkido thread and not TKD.

 

Bladed. The heel, to me, is for back kicks. You won't break your foot or your ankle kicking with the blade, provided you work on the kick and practice kicking bags, etc. A side kick is a VERY forceful kick, whether done bladed or with the heel. I do not feel like the bladed kick forces me to give up any power, certainly I've got plenty of power to break ribs.



IME, the bladed method requires less rotating of the hips and allows you to maintain a more upright posture, allowing you more mobility. It should be noted that in our system all three "basic" kicks (front, side and roundhouse) are chambered and retracted in the exact same manner, the only difference between them is what the foot and hips do when you extend your leg. This allows better mobility and makes your kicks less obvious.


Also, we mostly do our roundhouse kicks with the ball of the foot, rather than the top of the foot or shin.

 

wow ... great answers all around thanks .

People seem to poop all over sidekicks . I personaly have found them VERY usefull in creating space and/or deflating oponnants . I like the back leg mid to high level roundhouse , same leg sidekick ( now the front leg )to their solar plexus , then thigh/hip level spinning hook with the back leg . Works great when your playing and sparring problably not such a hot combo in full contact or full range becouse ....

My sidekicks get jammed up sometimes then its a drivethrough ( football tackle ) , single leg takedown ( which works like a double becouse one leg is jammed off the ground ) , a leg pick ,any number of throws , etc and needless to say its then a ground game till one or both of us makes it back up to our feet or taps . Anyone else experiance this little effect of a properly chambered sidekick ?

 

just a little note to say

MJR ,
I am so jealous ... I would give my left testicle to train with Master Hwang In-Shik .

 

A side kick can get jammed up if you throw it too close. Up close I tend to have to use it in tandem with high punches. Ideally you need to make a little room with your hands or maybe your knees before this kick can do what it needs to.

If you're using a side kick to try to escape from a take down, you might just be guilty of using the wrong technique for the situation.

 

For me a hook kick is side kick that "misses", and hooking back in using either the heel or the flat of the foot for sparring. Snaping side as you mentioned is the swooping side I mentioned, and I guess pushing side is with the heel. Both are side kicks. And for us it's where the foot is coming from. In the snaping side, I bring my thigh parallel to the ground, then bring my foot up in an arc, striking with the blade of my foot. In the pushing side, I chamber with the calf paralell and and trust straight out with the foot, hitting with the heel. Hope that helps

 

Zac ....

no no no

I throw a side kick .. they close the gap with while I chamber ( basicly a football rush ) ... then they take me down becouse they closed in and jammed the kick.. You dont defend against a take down with a side kick . That just silly ... becouse you see ... your then on one leg .. which is why the take down works so well

and I dont know about you but if I can punch them .. I am to close to sidekick ... thats when it gets jammed ... My legs are weird .. they seem to be longer than my arms ....

 

I understand now, that's a hard attack to deal with. It sounds like you might be telegraphing your kick if they have time to charge while your chambering. I can't see what you're doing, but


Regarding using the side kicks when your're close enough to punch, Yeah, your legs are longer than your arms, but I can squeeze my chambered leg up in the space created by my punches and extend it to get some room. Works for me, your mileage might vary.

 

We're taught heel only.