I'm trying to make the transition into full-contact competition and was wondering what can I do to imrpove my ax kick (and maybe even my spinning heel kick.) I've been using a kicking paddle for years, but now I think it's best I try hitting something that may be a little more dense. Any suggestions on what kind of equipment I could use that might be a little tougher than a kicking paddle?
A good self standing bag would be a great training aid,and depending on how high you kick having it height adjustable would be of benefit. You would need to work against an uncooperative partner down the road as well to devlop offensive and defensive strategies. As for training those kicks for full contact fighting ,I do not know if they would be of great benefit in the ring,my opinion,but you are the one going into the ring so when you start to spar with moving people who strike back you will find what works for you in the ring. Good luck.
Let's you're training for full contact and you want to start kicking something more dense... hmmmm... maybe spar full contact and try to work it in there? A person should have just about perfect density no? A heavy bag would work too, though be careful. If you lock your knee out while kicking downward at a stationary target you're begging for injury. On the other hand, I've got pretty solid power in this kick and I rarely do it on anything more than a paddle. If you're flexible enough the kick generates a lot of it's own momentum. Just make sure you follow through with your whole leg down almost all the way to the ground. I think it's harder to set this kick up and use it than it is to generate power, you might honestly be better off just practicing it in sparring. Everything I said here goes double for that spinning heel. That kick is really hard to set up, generates a lot of power and is really easy to hurt yourself with.
if you want to step up from the paddle without going to a heavy bag you can try them using a focus pad. we tend to not use paddles too much after you get to a certain level of proficiency when kicking as they really break away too easily. you don't need to have great technique or power to make a big sound and get the paddle to move. a focus pad held in a partners hand has more heft to it and you have to hit it properly or you will hurt yourself. be SURE to kick using your heel when you do these kicks. hitting a heavy bag or focus pad with any kind of power with the side of your foot will really mess up your foot. also don't forget to keep your leg bent in a natural bend. if you lock your knee out you can overextend it when you hit your target. of course the optimal way to get the kick to work in a full contact enviroment is to try to work it into your sparring. you need to realisticially practice the kicks, with as many differnt people you can fight with, as often as you can if you want to use them properly.
Personally I would have to ask if you are doing the axe kick of the front leg? Usually I find that if you use the back leg it's to slow and presictable to be a high percentage shot.
A heavy bag would be ideal,for the side kick and spinning heel kick,but many find it hard at first to drive through and they bounce off. The ax kick is used specifically for landing a downward power blow to the area either of the head,the area between the head and outer shoulder or the shoulder,to target this kick on a moving target is hard,but if you want it in your tool box then you must train it,since people will not allow you to make a downward strike to their clavical area,a short self standing bag is ideal or even better is a short standed Bob.if you are worried over injury from this kick then avoid doing it and training it. The side kick was named because it was delivered from the side using the edge of the foot,use of the heel was a heel kick,turning more using more butt and the heel was a back kick,today many make the side kick look like a back kick and it should not,but using the butt gives more power so many prefer it. The spinning heel kick is just that a back heel kick off the spin,but remember the time you are using to turn/spin exposes your back and a good fighter will be inside and be striking your head and kidneys at will,while you cover up. Perfect your kicks and make them strong on bags and also make sure you work with people because ranging and hitting a moving target are a lot different than hitting a stationary object.
ok not to nit pick ... but ummm dont you use the heel of the foot on side kicks and on back kicks ? Kicking with the edge of the foot doesnt sound like a bright idea against heavy bag or another fighter ... but what do I know I dont fight or spar ... oh wait .. yes I do ... when you use the edge of the foot you put undo stress on the ankle when the foot torques you lose some of the stopping/pushing power of the kick . Now I will say that too many TKD people throw their side kicks like back kicks but I think its becouse they feel like they get more height that way ... not power . and a spinning back kick I dont think is the same thing as a spinning heel kick .But I feel this last part was more likely an error on my end reading your post than your mistake ...
Quote "ok not to nit pick ... but ummm dont you use the heel of the foot on side kicks and on back kicks " Today they do use the heel on both ,but the difference between a side kick and a Back were that the edge of the foot was used in the side kick,the back kick used the heel,to use the heel the butt is employed and it does not go out to the side it goes to the rear. Quote "Now I will say that too many TKD people throw their side kicks like back kicks but I think its becouse they feel like they get more height that way ... not power ." Sorry the Butt adds power not height,that is why the kick is employed now using the heel to deliver more power. Power is generated by correct technique combined with speed of delivery,height is not an indicator of power. A heel kick or back kick can be delivered from the front leg,the rear leg or it can spin and be delivered. (spinning back kick,Right leg forward,left foot steps and closes the gap as the body spins 360 degrees and the right heel rises ,toes down and hopefully lands) Here is a site which spells out the side kick,if you look at page 6 you will see the foot sword as described to be "the edge of the foot as the contact surface". http://itfnz.org.nz/ref/essays/side_kick.pdf I hope this helps explain my points.
I just use my heavy bag (cos I dont have anything else ). Start it swinging and fire your ax kick into it while its on an angle. Works ok for me.
Well Thank you Jim for explaining how to do a Hapkido Sidekick TKD style ... which is what the PDF is called ... TKD sidekick ... to some one asking how to make the transition to full contact. http://itfnz.org.nz/ref/essays/side_kick.pdf I am not saying throwing your sidekick with your butt doesnt add power (even though its now a back kick becouse your toes tend to point down ) ... but when your kicking the air in forms ... I dont see why they need the power ... I do see them doing it in front of the mirror over and over again . Then when I ask them why they dont throw the side kick from the side but more to the back " oh well its looks better and I can get more height when I over rotate the hips " . I dont think either of its true but thats what they say * shrugs * much like kicking people off horses with flying kicks .. thats what they say ... doesnt make it true . Your side kick should connect with the bottom of the heel . I just did a search on four different M.A. foums and frankly everyone BUT slappy tappy point sparring people say to use your heel becouse of risk of injury when applying power . Not to mention its a smaller and harder striking surfice when compared to the foot blade which means you get more penetration power . * shrugs * but hell I am just a monkey on the internet ... and only an orange belt in Hapkido ...
Well since the kicks of Hapkido were taken from Tae kyun/Tae kwondo/Shotokan the kick was the same. I began my training in tae Kwon do in 1970 and we used the Blade edge. I trained in Japanese styles and used the blade edge. I trained in Hapkido and used the blade edge. In the Late 80s early 90s The blade edge was replaced in by the use of the heel,in many TKD and Hapkido schools. The side kick was the Blade edge ,delivered from the side chamber, and was delivered similarly to the front kick and roundhouse,and did not employ the butt for power or the turning over of the foot to use the heel and the butt. (if you have opportunity to read ,see video or attend a Bill Wallace seminar he discusses just this,but he is not hapkido so I guess it does not apply) Once the Kick turns over and uses the heel it is technically no longer a side kick but a back kick,but the employment has changed in TKD and Hapkido,so now the heel is seen and accepted as a side kick. Maybe I am just too old in the arts that I know and have seen what was before. I posted the TKD site because Hapkido does not present anything as in depth on line,that I have found for free.If you want to spend some money to see what I am talking about then GM Bong Soo Han and GM John Man So videos will show you what I am talking about as blade edge delivery. Go to the book store and look at Master Scott Shaw Books I believe he has the blade edge delivery in his books as well. Hapkido,as any art,is an indivduals use of the tools,if you know the side kick as a Heel kick then do it as such,as long as it works when needed that is all tha matters.
NEW THREAD POSTED FOR THIS ONE .. SORRY OLD SCHOOL KID didnt mean to thread jack . sorry but Hapkido kicks are not TKD kicks ... there are like six threads on this forum alone that back that up . Or maybe your of the HKD is just TKD with jointlocks school of thought . Good that makes some sense I wonder why it changed ? Funny Me too , Shaolin Kempo Karate , and even a Chinese Art Su Lum Fa Kung Fu under Shihan John M. Stover and Sifu Kim Crisp nothing but heel according to their teachings . yeah thats my point about the toes turning down , its a back kick not a side kick if the toes point down and your leg is behind you .. not beSIDE you , but it is still readily accepted in TKD as a side kick in forms . And both kicks should be (side and back) using the heel to transfer the power to your target . A sidekick strikes with the heel , foot parallel to the floor toes pointing across the body so you can see the top of the foot and all your toes for maximum penetration and stopping power with the smaller , and tougher surfice area of the heel (when compared to the blade of foot ) . Old School Kid, As for ax kicks ... good luck making them work in full contact . If its full range and full contact ... you will be taken down . If its stand up only then you can pull it off a little higher percentage wise . And PLEASE note Jim's advise on spin kicks in full contact .
HKD probably started off with blade on the side kick, then it moved away to the heel because it generates more power. The reason why very few styles emphasize the heel is because it is simply harder to do (to turn your hip over more while facing forward) and therefore requires that one spend a lot of time building up those muscles...this is probably why it later reverted back to the blade of the foot i nHKD circles. Axe kicks work and work welll...but like anything it is all about timing and knowing when to use it. Sure it is a high risk kick, but it is also a KO. Austin
good point austinso ... I just dont have the sense of timing or skills to work'em myself . So I can only say what I have experienced when using them ... a takedown ... but you live and learn .. maybe I should work them some more before I write them off . Any tips ? My biggest problem is finding a situation to use it in . When do you throw an ax kick ? What job does the tool fit ?
Hey I've been taken down many times, usually from my seniors...and that is the point, though...to live and learn... Timing is not a magical thing...it comes with practice, but more importantly sparring practive. And as in all things, some people seem to be born with the ability or they have to work hard at developing it. Anyway...I don't think anyone can tell you when to use this kick anymore than one can tell you when or how to use a front kick. YOu just have to analyze your opponent and figure it out, and since everyone is different, you may or may not use it. For me right now, I'm less inclined to use it against opponents taller than me, but I know Master Hwang can land it on anyone. All I can say is that axe kicks are primarily "finishers", not something you throw right off the bat (rarely anyway). Also remember that it is an off-line kick that lands straight down. Austin P.S. when I say that HKD side kick may have changed from the TKD/Karate-like kick to the side-kick with the heel that we are familiar with, I'm talking during the 60's. I think most if not all 2nd generation masters teach it this way. And frankly what Bong Soo Han teaches on his tapes is not a reflection of his style nor of his ability. Innovations in TKD kicking and in fact many chinese arts all came from HKD during the 70's.
he he he * peers about nervousely * SHHHHHHH !!! dont let the CMA people or the TKD people hear you say that ! You know there are seperate forums for a reason . And besides even with our superior kicking skills and ground fighting ... they out number us like 50 to 1 . Like Master Hwang In-Sheik ? You have trained with him too !!! grrrrrrr that is not fair . Or do you mean Grand Master Hwang ... like as in the TKD GM who owns the school I train at ? I hear he has a good ax kick too ... but I havent seen him ... like ever * rolls eyes *
