Rocket's training critic

ok iv been planing to post my training regime for a while so the MAP community can tare it a part piece by piece and tell me what a ridiculous newbie iv been (only joking all criticism is welcome)

my martial arts training on an average week consists of two days of Judo and 1 of MMA some times more, on the days in which im training in class in the evening
during the day I do

Pull up bar variation's
12 Pull ups
12 Mixed grip pull ups
10 Chin ups
10 behind the neck pull ups

sit up variations 4 sets of 100
regular sit up
crunches
ankle grab sit ups
leg raised sit up

80 Burpee's
100 Jump Lungees
100 Lungees
25-30 Regular press ups and 1 set of press up variation's changing every day (so it goes between diamond press up, Hindu PU, roman press up, and back round again)

recently Iv been told that I shouldn't do any training on the days in which I do martial arts training or at least should cut back considerably so I would appreciate your opinions on that

my training on the other two weekdays consists of the same pull up bar, press up and sit up exercises as during the week but the burpees and squats are replaced with

Wall sit
Plank/Side Plank
Leg Lift

and weight training with dumbbells
15-30bench press
15-30Flies
18-25squats with overhead lift
Romanian dead lift (these are on hold for now and have been replaced by one arm bench press's/flies as I have a slight muscle imbalance on my left side which I am trying to correct, that and Im really bad at dead lifts)
25bent over row's

on the weekend I take my rest day on a Saturday (or if I was lazy and took it during the week make up for it) and on Sundays I either go running or cycling. I should also mention all training is preceded by light stretching I am no expert on stretching and couldn't tell you the specific exercises I do mainly just ones iv picked up from class. just so there is no confusion I should probably also say that all my training is done at home as I am currently unemployed and for now to young to sign on so there for cant pay for the gym or prove I'm unemployed and get in free, when I do get a job I plan to join a gym and am also considering dropping MMA for BJJ (grappling just interests me more) which will bump my martial art days up to 4 instead of three when this happens Ill probably have to review my training routine again.

so what do you think ? what am I doing to much of ? what am I doing to little of ? should I stop training on days Im going to class ? any responses would be appreciated

 

Since you're only training a few days a week, it's best to separate your lifting from your technique training days. The more fresh and focused you are for training, the better your technique will be and you never want to practice sloppy technique.

As for the training itself, behind the neck pull-ups are going to slowly compromise your shoulder health. The position your arms are put in is very hard on the shoulder joint, similar to upright rows which are also pretty bad news for your shoulders.

Instead of doing 40+ pull-ups, why not put a weight belt on or hold a DB between your feet? Unless you're preparing for some belt test that requires high rep pull-ups or something.

Stop with all the "core" work. That's a whole lot of disc aggravation you're giving yourself, with no benefit to your core strength. Squats, deadlifts, pushups, and heavy presses are all going to be your best core movements when performed properly. The planks and side planks are fantastic: you want to use movements that train the core by PREVENTING motion at the spine, rather than creating it.

Speaking of which, where are your squats and deadlifts? 100 lunges is going to do nothing for leg strength. It'll burn and make you sore, but that's about it. Don't confuse that for getting a good workout.

You really don't want to stretch (I assume you meant prolonged static stretching) before a workout either.

 

finally some response thank you hate to have to say this but my routines changed yet again haha MMA class moved to another town and I am more interested as I said in my OP in taking up BJJ so im not moving with them so for now I have an extra day of fitness/weight training, also I am closer to being able to get to a gym regularly so my routine will probably changing yet again pretty soon but as the stuff in my OP is pretty much still what I do in the house feedbacks still welcome.

and I don't do any weights on days I have technique training did once and never made the same mistake again in fact a while back I made another thread asking weather its a good idea to train fitness the same days you have a MA class and as a result have cut back a little the amount of training I do on days I have Judo. the the lunges and jump lunges came because they we're a big part of our fitness training at MMA,

what exactly do you feel I should drop ?

and yeah I know about the stretching now

 

You're doing high rep squats with overhead presses, but that's not what I meant.
You're doing romanian deadlifts, but that's not what I meant either. I'll rephrase.

Where are your heavy back/front squats and heavy conventional deadlifts?

As for the core work that needs dropped, I would drop anything that involves twisting your spine around:

These will slowly ruin your posture and spine, but you'll never build up appreciable core strength with these movements. The best way to train all of your core musculature is with heavy squats and dead lifts...

The best way to sum up my advice would be: less is more. Do fewer core exercises, but do ones that actually work. Do less leg work, but use movements that actually work. Do less pull-ups, just use more weight.

Your workouts will be short, intense, and mentally/physically grueling. A lot like a fight.

 

Sorry for not posting sooner, Rocket. I know what it's like trying to get help and nobody responds! I'll try to comment on some of the things that come to my attention for now, and come back later to read with more attention.

Instead of doing so many sit ups that enforce bad posture, you should try doing some gymnastic style training. The L-Sit is a great exercise, and challenging for everyone. The nice thing is that once you can do a full L-Sit, you can move on to a V-Sit, then V-Ups, hanging leg raises, etc.

In fact, you may want to check out gymnasticsbodies.com and the forum there. I've been doing the WODs (Workout Of the Day) and they're great! Usually in a Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday pattern with M+Th = Lower body and Tue+Fri = Upper body. They're really short too. Don't even take 45 minutes most of the time. I've been told they're almost perfect for a martial artist.

Alternately, you could start using the Westside for Skinny Bastards program written by Joe DeFranco (http://www.defrancostraining.com/index.php). It has received a lot of positive reviews from people here.

Another option is the 5/3/1 program written by Jim Wendler I think (?). It has also received good reviews and feedback from "average Joe's."

Often it is way better to just pick a program and stick with it a month or two instead of trying to design your own and keep changing it. Believe me, I know the feeling!

Also, don't bother looking for the perfect program. You'll never find it. I know that feeling too. Actually, people like you and don't need to look for a "perfect program." We aren't super duper elite athletes and it only takes a simple and practical routine for us to improve by leaps and bounds!

Patrick

Edit

Socrastein, you DO need more core work than simply lifting heavy in the DL and squats. I agree that those exercises are great for core development, but I do not think they are sufficient for a martial artist. I read an article on T-Nation about that common mistake in weightlifters. I will try to find it for you.

 

While I agree that anti-rotation and lateral stability are maximized through movements other than squats and deadlifts, this shouldn't be a concern for a kid who is doing lunges and squat presses for his lower body. Adding a couple hundred pounds to his squat and deadlift is going to be the best thing for him, including his core, for quite a long time. Specialization isn't necessary until you have built a very solid and strong foundation. Nearly every article on T-Nation says that

 

Heh.

I respectfully disagree. I think he could benefit a great deal from throwing in side planks, planks, or some form of roll outs (whether with a stability ball or the ab-wheel). They aren't complicated and it would be a cinch to add it to his program.

Here's an article on T-Nation that discusses this matter in great detail: T-Nation - Anterior Core Training

And another: T-Nation - High Performance Core Training

 

thanks for the info guys ill check out some of the links, its really hard to get an exercise plan going and stick to it there always seems to be something wrong no matter what you do, there's so much conflicting information as well.

just to be clear if sit ups are so bad for you why are they so common ?

 

I personally don't think sit ups are that bad for you, they're just not that effective after you get to a certain level of fitness IMHO. We tend to do micro sit ups where you barely lift your shoulders off the mat, do these slowly, absolute ab killer!

As to why they're done so much while exercises like the plank or rollouts aren't so common, who knows? Its like asking why the bench press is seen as the best indicator of overal strength or why standing on a vibrating platform is believed to cause weight loss!

 

ahaaha those things are funny I love it when you get overweight middle aged woman going down to a gym sitting on it for 5 minutes then going home

 

Patrick

I appreciate your respectful disagreement. Conversations aren't as fun when everyone already agrees with one another

Regarding the articles you posted, I have read them both a few times and I especially am a fan of the Mike Boyle article on anterior core training. I was using my ab wheel a little bit before that article, but ever since I first read it I've incorporated it into my training and that of my clients much more.

That being said, I don't believe the target audience of the great articles you mentioned and the subject in question (rocket3) are similar enough to warrant applying the recommendations from the Mike's to rocket3.

Mike Boyle works with athletes exclusively, and his articles are written from this perspective. He's talking about doing slow plank progressions and the like with skilled, experienced athletes. Any one of these guys is going to be a lot stronger and more experienced than our OP, and I think ab rollout progressions and the like are perfectly appropriate to maximize their performance.

Robertson's article is even titled High Performance Core Training. Why are you referencing this in the context of advice for a complete beginner?

Simply put, newbs don't need high performance ANYTHING. They need to master the basic movement patterns.

I would use planks for a beginner primarily to teach them what a neutral spine feels like, and to help them transfer this over to the compound movements I would teach them. I wouldn't attribute their increases in core strength to the time we spent doing plank variations. I would attribute it to the heavy compound movements we were doing like squats, deadlifts, weight pull ups, overhead presses, unilateral DB presses, farmer walks, suitcase walks, lunges, step ups, pull throughs, etc.

When a beginner lifter has no foundation and has little to no experience with proper weight lifting, they have no weaknesses to speak of. They are weak all over, and they need to focus on building basic overall strength during the beginning. As weaknesses pop up over time after the foundation is laid, then you can speak of needing more lateral stability or anti-rotation or bicep work or what not.

Again, I agree with what you're saying when applied to your average intermediate lifter. I don't think the same recommendations are appropriate for complete beginning lifters.

 

Because people commonly do/think/say bad & stupid things.

Do you really think that the fact that something is popular is an indication of its worth?

Paris Hilton
Titanic the movie
Croc Shoes
Miley Cyrus
P90-X

Sit-ups are on a long list of things that are incredibly popular and widespread, and incredibly dumb.

But seriously, Stuart McGill has conducted years of research into the mechanics of the human spine: what strengthens it, what weakens it, what breaks it, how it works, etc. His work is very clear when it comes to repeatedly flexing/extending and twisting the spine - this is how you cause disc herniations, tissue breakdown, and overall just F up your back. Creating core strength is about learning to brace the spine AGAINST motion and torque, rather than try to use it to create motion and torque. That's the job of the hips and shoulders, not the spine.

 

haha hold on a second slow up, I am appreciating the advise I really am guys but where s this opinion coming from that I'm some kind of newbie weakling, I'm only 18 years old iv being doing martial arts for almost a year serous fitness training for even longer, have never been out of shape or overweight in my life am pretty dam fit as it is I think if I really wanted to and committed I could reach athlete levels of fitness. again this isn't to say I don't need advice I'm still relatively very new to all this compared to many on this site but I'm hardly a 40 year old stepping into a gym/martial arts class for the first time ever either.

 

are they really that bad lol ? I'm sure there's not one martial arts class, gym instructor, p.e teacher, personal fitness consultant, boxing gym, drill sergeant who hasn't had there students/clients do a sit up at least once in there career/existence, and I don't know if it makes a difference but if you look at my routine I'm doing 4 different variations.

isn't that essentially a crunch ? those are in my routine

 

I cant find the skinny ******* part lol

 

Socrastein,

I completely agree with both of your posts. Our disagreement seems to stem from whether a complete beginner should use the types of exercises I described. I agree with what you said about that as well; however, to my knowledge, Rocket is not a complete beginner, but has some experience in martial arts* and as he says, he's been active all his life.

* Although that's not necessarily an indication of physical abilities.

Here's the third WS4SB article: http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/38-articles/65-westside-for-skinny-bastards-part3.html

The first and second article links are on the right side of the page.

Also, I haven't really read your first till now, but upon further examination I have concluded that...

I WOULDN'T PUT MY DOG ON YOUR TRAINING ROUTINE!!

It's just too much! I really suggest using WS4SB, the GB WODs, or SOMETHING ELSE!

(I mean this in good humor, by the way... no offense intended)

 

haha ITS HARD everyone tells you a different story of what to do and what not

 

Rocket3,

Don't take it as an offense, but your routine makes it very clear you're a beginner lifter. It doesn't matter if you've been lifting for 20 years, if you're exercise routine looks anything like what you posted in the OP then you are a beginner still. I'm not speaking of your martial arts abilities, only your lifting experience and abilities.

Take how much you weigh and double it. When you can pick up that much weight with your bare hands and perfect form, you will probably be close to an intermediate lifter.

Many people train for years and remain "eternal beginners" because they never learn how to train properly to actually make respectable progress. You're doing exactly what you need to do to avoid that, aside from hiring a professional (which I strongly encourage).

 

Can anyone explain to me, briefly and succinctly, what P-90x actually is? I've searched for an explanation, but I can't find anything beyond 'it's an exercise routine you have to pay money for', which makes me instantly suspicious.

 

It's helped make the term "muscle confusion" very popular. It's a total body system that focuses on "changing it up" so much that you don't repeat a workout for something like 2 weeks. Lots of really high rep stuff, emphasis on bodyweight. Similar to crossfit in so far as it emphasizes hard workouts and has no semblance of programming or individualization whatsoever.

It also comes with a decent nutrition system of course, so people stop eating crap for the first time in years and when they lose weight they say it's because P90-X did such a good job of keeping their muscles confused...