Lose fat, keep muscle.

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by tonyv107, Mar 5, 2011.

  1. tonyv107

    tonyv107 Valued Member

    I've been doing a 5x5 2 day split for some time now. I've seen impressive gains in my strength while gaining some size. I am going to switch to a 531 routine eventually. But I have something I want to take care of first.

    I've been wanting to cut weight since currently I am not at my ideal weight. I weight 205+- and want to be at around 180. Keep in mind I'm not a fellow walking around at 13% BF. Most likely I'm at 25ish% the majority of that fat around my belly and thighs. My look is deceiving because people gasp when I tell them i weight over 200. In theory I could lose that fat and be within range of my goal without losing muscle mass.

    Staying in control of my diet will probaby be the hardest part for me. Ive gotten slightly better at controlling my portions so I will aim for a 500 calorie deficit daily. Should I continue with 1.5g of protein per pound?

    I plan on cutting before starting the 531 routine, hopefully I can lose 20 in about 2-3 months. There is no real hurry. What can I do to maintain my current level of strength? Should I continue with the 5x5 or switch to lighter weights with high reps?

    Thanks


    P.S. Going to Hawaii so I'll have another cutting phase before that in July =D.
     
  2. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    How tall are you?
    What are your numbers like?
     
  3. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    Why not ignore the calories to a large degree (just stick to c2000 - 3000) and cut out anything made with corn, wheat, oats, potatoes, rice, semolina, and sugar.

    I've done that and lost 10 kg (22 pounds) in 2 months without muscle loss. The majority of the fat was deep fat - ie behind the muscles of my abs in my peritoneum.
     
  4. tonyv107

    tonyv107 Valued Member

    My numbers aren't impressive.I'm a 1/4" short of 6' I've upped my squat to 245x3. Can't give you a bench number because I'm to shy to ask for a spotter. Dumbbell bench I'm at 85x3. I just started standing barbell press, havn't checked max but I'm guessing I can hit 125x3.

    As for calories. I haven't counted exact numbers but I'm sure im under 3k calories on days that I dont lift. My protein shake after a lift will take me over 3k for sure. I will cut out the corn, wheat and rice etc.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2011
  5. Jabby Mcgee

    Jabby Mcgee Valued Member

    It is very difficult to burn fat whilst gaining muscle, although not impossible. It is easier to maintain strength and muscle mass, but still difficult.

    The reason for this is that gaining mode (anabolism) and losing mode (catabolism) are two opposite conditions for the body. This is why a lot of body builders (particularly the old school guys) tend to have bulking phases where they aren't hugely concerned with gaining fat.

    In order to acheive this goal, there are two main factors to consider - diet, and cardio. Continuing with your weight training should help to maintain your strength, although you should be prepared for the possibility of some small loss.

    With regards to the diet, you need to make sure that you are getting enough calories. Muscle tissue uses a lot of them, and when the body doesn't get enough calories, it breaks down muscle tissue in order to conserve energy, and will avoid tapping into its fat stores. Not only that, but if we cut too many calories, the body will store surplus calories to prepare for famine.

    Consuming enough whilst trying to burn fat is difficult, however, as the body needs a caloric deficit in order to burn fat. So, you need to finely balance your diet by cutting just enough calories to force the body into burning its fat stores. Id advize the typical 6 small meals a day diet.

    Although you won't be able to have as large a caloric deficit as is desirable when cutting fat, this is not such a bad thing, as if you are still weight training, just having muscle mass will burn fat, so the greater your muscle mass, the better your body's ability to burn fat.

    With regards to cardio - forget about slow jogs and power walking, etc. You need to be thinking interval training.

    The main thing to bear in mind is that, although you may have to accept a small amount of muscle loss, this may not be too bad a thing. What muscle mass you have left will look much better on a body with a fat percentage below 15%.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2011
  6. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    If you have the 5/3/1 book, just do the "Moving North of <expletive>" workout. You're doing a good warm-up beforehand, your weights, then hill sprints or other tough cardio at the end. Problem solved.
     
  7. tonyv107

    tonyv107 Valued Member

    Thanks guys. Great information posted. I expected to lose some muscle mass I just
    wanted to minimize. I well definitely keep better track of what I eat.
     
  8. righty

    righty Valued Member

    Not necessarily.

    While interval training will burn more calories vs. time spent, you will need to be more careful as the higher intensity of intervals makes it more likely to break down muscle in addition to fat for energy.

    So the choice it yours and it will depend on what other stuff you are doing in a week. e.g. if you are doing MA sessions and or weights then adding hard intervals in there may not be the best thing.

    So if you use intervals it means you will need to be more careful with your diet, particularly timing.

    Also, smaller meals throughout a day do not necessarily aid in weight loss. Instead it's most important to plan your meals around your activities or training. This is so you get some nutrients in your before and after. Protein most important but also with some carbs to help build up any muscle you may have lost. This is why I look at real low or no carb diets with caution.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2011
  9. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    This may be hard to swallow but at your stats a cut may not be the best thing.
    It doesn't look like your walking around with a very large amount of muscle tissue, focusing on gaining some strength/muscle mass for the next few months would be preferable IMO
    you say you have your holiday planned in July? That may be a better goal, until then I'd focus on getting as big and strong as I can so there is more muscle mass to cut too. As a newb you are at the best time in your life to put on crazy amounts of muscle and strength, you won't get this opportunity again I suggest you use it.
    I'm sorry mate I'm really not trying to be horrible.
    Plus being much bigger will make th cut easier as the muscle will burn more calories.
    Honestly using this phase to focus on huge amounts of strength will give you an edge in weight training for the rest of your life.
     
  10. tonyv107

    tonyv107 Valued Member

    I see where you're coming from Steve. I don't have a huge mass I'm my upper body but my legs, abs are fairly developed I can feel my abs through my belly =D. More mass will make it easier to cut in the future so I'll just wait for July. I have found that with my current routine my weight has stayed at 205ish, but I can see visible gains of muscle and loss of fat. I'm guessing training MA 4-5 times a week is burning the fat off when I'm not lifting. I will make the switch to 531 and maybe up the intake of calories to boost muscle growth.

    Thanks
     
  11. Jabby Mcgee

    Jabby Mcgee Valued Member

    It has been shown that high intensity interval training generates an anabolic environment within one's body, and so actually aids muscle growth. Naturally, you can get too much of a good thing, and this is when you start seeing atrophy. But when done correctly, this shouldn't be an issue.

    The hormones that cause your body to build muscle and lose fat - adrenaline, Human Growth Hormone, Testosterone, Thyroxine, Insulin-Like Growth Factor, Insulin, and Glucagon - are all directly related to short explosive activity.
     
  12. tonyv107

    tonyv107 Valued Member

    Guess I'm doing it right then! My MA classes are providing the proper interval type trainin that I need. I must ask how much is too much? Currently I do judo 2x a week and MT 2x a week. The MT class is an hour long, and when I'm allowed I will spend another hour after that training with the fighters( sparring, clinch work, drills etc ). Can 2 hours of heavy intervals(since we run 3 minute rounds with 1 minute rest between drills) be over the top?
     
  13. righty

    righty Valued Member

    Sure you are right. But all that depend on having the raw building blocks and the energy and build them up with to gain muscle. Which you likely will not have with an unplanned calorie deficit diet.
     

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