If any of my previous posts in this topic have offended anyone, I do apologize. I treasure this site for allowing the exchange of opinions and ideas, even within martial arts styles. I believe my opinions on this thread are clear and will only add to this post if new questions come up. If anyone would like additional or specific information, please PM me.
Grand Master Han no longer tests people via video. It was an experiment that met with less than satisfactory results. No one was ever promoted to Black Belt in that fashion. In fact, in the 36 years that he has been teaching in the United States, he has only promoted 93 Black Belts. GMH is trying his best to spread his way of Hapkido to the rest of the world. The video testing was abandoned due to difficulties on both ends. Most sincerely, Jon Davis Director of Operations Grand Master Bong Soo Han's International Hapkido Federation www.bongsoohanhapkido.com 310.829.2643
Sounds Great! John, We have talked before and I agree with Grandmaster Han totally. It is the same with Grandmaster Chang who grew up with Grandmaster Han. He too has promoted very few black belts and only 7 to instructorship of 4 Dan or above. I am happy that we are doing our best to teach it correctly. Please give GMH my regards and my wife also says hello to him. We are going to try and visit this summer. Please let me know his shedule if you could so I can make proper plans and get his approval for the time. hapkiyoosool@msn.com
Thomas I am with you Man! to say that just because a person learns from a master that teaches both TKD and KHD isn't a pure hapkidoist is one of the craziest blanket statements that i have ever heard. First of all hapkido is in no way a pure art being that it has evolved and taken pieces from other systems throughout the years. In my experience its not the country, the generation or the dojang that really has any effect on how a student comes out as a hapkidoist, its level of dedication and training that makes an individual something special. Tae Kwon do won't do anything to a hapkido practicioner except make him better and more evolved as an artist. As would boxing, wrestling, judo etc. Only the blind believe that thier art is the end all answer to fighting. Any one who has ever been involved in a fight knows that there is no predictable moves or answers. Its all ways changing, thats the reason for so many styles people who do fight have questions to certain things that they haven't seen before. Its amazing that even in 2004 people can still hav a closed mind about things especially the martial arts. I came from a lineage of american and korean G.Ms that teach both TKD and HKD with the ability to seperate the both and teach them with clear differences. And as a Master of Both i have been blessed to learn how to teach them as two arts. secondly if you where taught by so called first or second generation GM's that great for you however it not a big deal!!! hate to bust some bubbles but if you didn't learn directly from Ji Han Je and i am not talking about a seminar in which you shook his hand i am talking about actual training...... your learning someone elses version of what GM Je taught them. My Grandmaster Trained with GM Je and he still puts a different spin on certain things that he teaches because everyone is different. Thats the wonderful difference in a Do verses an RYU A ryu is set in stone anything that strays from the original is no longer the same. As opposed to a Do its a way of life which means its constanly changing with the flow of life. has anyone ever seen a traditional hapkidoist try and do traditional knive defenses (dan do maki) against an escrima or arnis instructor. If you have you understand the meaning of cross training and adapting to change. Thomas i know that you aren't worried about what some of these so called traditionalists, students of second generational GMs and the like are talking about because it sounds like you and you students train to hard to even let haters bug you :woo: I feel the same way it all comes down to wether or not you believe in your self and your skill and what your GM has taught you because regardless of affiliation method or philosohpy some one spent time to teach you and that comes from the heart. master eddie 4th dan Tkd Jidokwan & 4th Dan in Hapkido hurk Choo kwan and for all the haters www.hurkchookwan. & www.hurkchoosociety.com You can reach me I KEEP ALL MY NUMBERS LISTED
mastereddie, i didn't detect any hate in any of the previous posts... might you be over-reacting? questioning things is not the same as hating them, right?
nj howard "Haters" is a slang for jealousy Or not liking something because of lack of understanding it. Not actually Hate Hate i would think that the people on this forum would be more mature than that.
Forgive me for not reading this whole thread (I read the first few posts), but the school that I attend is a bit confusing. The grandmaster is a 9th degree blackbelt in TKD and an 8th degree blackbelt in HKD. He was originially from South Korea, and we have alot of korean term and flags in my dojang. The phonebook said it was TKD AND HKD, but the school door says TKD, and all of the students refer to the school as TKD. Now here is where the confusion comes in. The kicks are all TKD with a few HKD (as far as my understanding goes), and we are required to learn 20 hand techniques before we can advance on from a whitebelt. Is this standard for a TKD school or are all of these hand techniques the HKD part of the school? I don't really know what to tell you more on, but if you have any questions so that I can better clearify my situation, please ask. Thanks guys.
haters mastereddie, thanks for the clarification. sorry, i wasn't familiar with that slang term. is it like the term "haterism" that the lead actor used in "barbershop"?
Greeetings! I hope by now that you have read the entire thread... it brings up many issues, good and bad, about schools that offer TKD and Hapkido. My best advice primarily is to ask the instructor and/or master of the school about these things (go to the source). Schools teach differently from each other and may have different requirements. It's okay to ask about the requirements... ask your instructor about the kicks... and when you learn about Hapkido kicking... My advice would be to evaluate how you feel about the training in your school. Do you enjoy it? Does it seem practical? How well do the senior students perform? Have you checked out neighboring schools to see how this school compares (highly recommended)? Additionally, if the instructor is teaching a mix of TKD and Hapkido, will that affect your respect for the school? Some people want to learn as "pure" a style as possible and others are more concerned first with school atmosphere and curriculum... it really depends what you want. (Here's another thread to check out:http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5506)
Very entertaining thread indeed. First off I love the passion that a few of you are showing about your martial arts!! That is very important to me. I do worry though when people that are so passionate start to argue about "true and pure" martial arts. In my belief truth and purity comes from the instructor and are received or not received by the student. Currently I train in a dojang where the instructor teaches both Tae Kwon Do and Hapki Do. He has spent years and years learnign both of these arts, and yes he learned them seperately. He has been in Korean martial arts since 1959. There is no doubt in my mind that he can teach both in the same school and be effective. Now, you may suggest that if he had taught just one singular art, his students would be all that better off. I am not sure I want to argue that, but as a Tae Kwon Do student I feel I am getting plenty of instruction from him. I do not study in the Hapki Do classes he runs. The people that do train in those classes are very happy with what they are learnign and the attention they receive in the class. I would be interested to see if Hapki Do did have kicks in it in teh beginning, but I know that it does now. Maybe in some schools or organizations they do not teach kicks and that is their interpretation of the art, but there are many schools that appear to enterpret it differently. For good or bad.
Yeah watch out for High Dan instructors. By my reconing you would need to have been training for at least 50+ years to be a 10th Dan and even then it would be doubtfull. Many MA's stop having grading requirements once you get to about 4/5th Dan and after that it is awarded for work done within the MA and for continuing to teach etc. The highest ranked person I know is a 7th Dan in Jujitsu. He was recently awarded his 7th Dan for services to his style by the AMA ruling body in the UK. Master Blundel has been training for over 40 years now has been. If any Younger person say's they are 10th Dan its well McDojo and Lies.
Greetings, It has been my expirience ever since I started HKD in 1978 that TKD schools who claim to also teach HKD is just marketing. Any time I went to any TKD/HKD school and inquired about HKD they would avoid the subject or say they just teach a few moves etc. Most TKD Masters Korean or not are good at one or the other but rarely both.
if your school/club/dojang is acknowledged by a large federation (so if your sabumnim is "official") i wouldn't worry much about conflict of interests concerning hkd/tkd... and even if you're part of a small federation, there's nothing wrong with that; everything's ok as long as you get out of hkd what you are looking for on 9th & 10th degree blackbelts: know that in Korea they usually go from a white belt directly to a black belt (in approx 2y) (train almost every day). Coloured belts are just marketing to give people goals/so it looks like it's going faster. In europe, it takes about 4y to get a black belt if you train a lot... once you have 1st dan, you have to wait 1y for a chance to become 2nd dan then it takes 2y (waiting period) and it continuos hencefort; so waiting 5y for a 4th dan to become a 5th dan (if then he/she doesn't pass, he can retry in 1y) so: a 10th degree black belt (let's say he's a super talent + a korean + trains every day) will have to do hkd for 41y (so if he started when he was 12, he would have to be 53y old) no insult intended: i know there are super talents , even martial arts universaties... but ... pfff... :bang: don't train for the colour of your belt or a degree, train so you can defend yourself properly, don't boast but practise i'm sorry, i've gone bruce on you guys i hope i didn't become to teachery(?) --> professional error
just in case your not flaming here is a good link to read over and decide which is better for YOU . Becouse frankly its about what you plan on doing with the kicks .Defending yourself or competeing in tournaments you usually just cant say one style is Better or has better kicks ... its all about the application .. rambling .. sorry here is that link http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11512 search the forums search the forums search the forums search the forums search the forums
I am a formmer member of the WHRDA( world hwa rang do assoc.) And my formmer do jo nim was one of the guy's in a way that helped hapkido get from korea to the states. well I will let him tell the story http://www.hwarangdo.com/Magazines/blackbelt9-00.htm http://www.hwarangdo.com/Magazines/blackbelt10-00.htm http://www.hwarangdo.com/Magazines/blackbelt11-00.htm I hope this helps
reply, Not to sound like an ass, but the artcles that were posted I have always found suspicous when talking about Hapkido training. When talking about his training with Choi Young-Sul he said that he met him in the 1950's after his family re-located to Taegu. And then he said that he and his brother reached master ranks in Yu Sul under Choi in 1956. Considering the fact that Choi was pretty much teaching Aikijujutsu, I find it impossible to reach a master level in 6 years regardless of what he studied before hand. Just my opinion.
very good point Mike . I hadnt done the math on that one . I understand being granted black blelt in an art quickly if you are a Master in another and the MA's are related to each other or are very similiar in application, BUT ... it should take you much longer than six years to reach Master level from THAT point . It does sound quite rushed . But then again I never claim to be an expert and I am sure some people have an amazing learning curve ... but six years to claim to be a Master if a MA does sound questionable . Does anyone have any more info ? BackFistMonkey
Greetings If you check deeper you'll see this was a politcal motivated rank promotion to unify two Associations. Also you must understand the HKD curriculum only went to 4th Dan after that rank was just for putting in another year or two in the system. So technically it was no big deal. Also it was possible that you could get to 3rd or 4th Dan in eight years. A year or two for 1st dan and another dan every year or two. In the early days rank didn't take as long as it does now and there were many people in thier late 20s and 30s with high dan ranks. Only after the avent of associations was it possible to control rank and set time limits even if you knew the material you had to wait a required time to legitimize things in a sense.
