I need some. Nutshell: tonight in my MT class, my instructors were talking to eachother out loud in front of the class about how they like to condition their shins. One said he rolls Sobi bottles up and down his, another said he taps his with Coke bottles, and they all agreed that smacking yourself in the shins with sticks was a great method. I spoke up. "Why on earth would you do that?" Why, to toughen up your shins and seperate the muscle from the bone, of course. I retorted, as politely as possible, saying that as far as I know this is terrible for you, it causes nerve damage, brittle bones, increases risk of arthritis, etc. I asked them why they don't just hit the heavy bag and reap all the benefits without all the dangers? They told me, also politely, that every fighter they know and train with does the same, and they've never had any problems. I asked if they would reconsider upon my bringing evidence to them of the dangers of what they do. They said they would look at it. Now, here's the problem. It seems a "given" that you don't smack yourself in the shins and what not on MAP. Anyone who's anyone knows that, right? Everyone knows that it causes damage, and only morons do it, etc. However, as far as I can see from sifting through threads, nobody can support this fact with concrete proof. I need this concrete proof. I need evidence, scientific studies, of why this is bad, and why you should never hit your shins on anything harder than your shins. I can't very well prove this point to them by citing the posts of a bunch of people on an internet forum, as much as I love and respect you all :love: I've been searching google and MAP for the past couple hours, I can't find anything. Maybe I'm retarded? Maybe I'm using bad keywords? Point is, if anyone has studies, and respectable articles, etc., please show them to me, so I can show them to my trainers, and save their shins, and the shins of everyone else in my class - not to mention save my own dignity, because I am certain everyone in my class assumed that I had no idea what I was talking about. :cry: I'm not debating that kicking trees and poles and hitting yourself with hard things is bad - I accept that it is. But I need some proof of this to show my instructors. Please don't tell me to simply find other instructors - there aren't any others where I live... I've looked. In little po dunk Idaho you don't find good Muay Thai gyms. The class is awesome otherwise, my instructors know a lot about fighting, but I've noticed they don't know much of anything about the other aspects of training, like cardio conditioning (They advocate running for miles to build your 3 min round endurance), weight training ("I wish I had a bow flex" ...actual quote), and shin conditioning, obviously. Please help.