I am currently taking gracie jujitsu and love the system but i may be relocating and i have found some school that teach kodokan judo. Now i have read some articles that said that this art form is more effective than BJJ. I want to develop my grounds game and be able to choke, throw and make my opponent submit. is judo as good as jujitsu, i do know that judo is a refined version of jujitsu but how much of it is spent on the ground compared to bjj? is judo and aikido similar? and how long would it take for one to get a black belt in judo? thanks
judo and bjj are very closely related. bjj is in fact derived from judo. generally judo spends more time on stand up grappling and throwing while bjj spends more on groundfighting. (this is not to say judo has no groundwork or that bjj has no stand up grappling) judo tends to be cheap because it is often subsidised by local sports bodies, however the quality can vary- some schools pretty much focus entirely on throws and ignore the groundwork, which is a vital part of judo. i havent heard of many poor bjj schools though. judo and aikido are not very similar at all, but like all japanese arts they do share some throwing techniques. however aikido spends little or no time on clinching and groundwork and generally nowhere near as much time doing randori as judo and bjj. chokes, pins, and submissions are the same in bjj and judo but there are no leg locks in judo. time taken to get a black belt is irrelevant and can vary depending on the club.
The only thing in common with Judo and Aikido is that you use your opponent's energy to against them. If the school said that their Judo is better than BJJ, don't go there. Any school that needs to say it's better than something else is shoddy. BJJ's rules are more realistic than Judo rules. You get a point for a takedown, but it doesn't end there unless you knock the guy out or he gives up. That doesn't mean Judo is bad, though. Getting thrown on concrete isn't pleasent. PL
Kodokan judo is what im looking at....if anyone can give me insight into this style of judo or has taken this style i would really appreciate it
no. well, it depends, what are you looking for? ability to throw and keep your opponent at a distance? or groundfighting/overall efficency? now i am in no way disrespecting judo cause i've sparred a few judo practictioners and they will toss you fairly easily if given the opportunity. Judo was derived from jujitsu, i've never done judo so i can't breakdown the cirriculum too much. but what i do know is this. jujitsu was originally created, birthed, organized and practiced in a war filled era. its main focus was on overall effectiveness in combat and it was pressure tested on an almost daily basis, if a technique didn't work against a resisting opponent, then it was disguarded. pressure testing involved duels which more often than not proved fatal, this did have a very positive effect, it gave practictioners a very good idea of what did and did not work. Judo came into existance sometime quite later, as the frequency of war diminished, so did the need for arts of war, so eventually a guy named Jigoro Kano went off by himself and took out alot of the practical applications of jujitsu, lots of the locks and chokes. so in a nut shell. Judo is Jujitsu's little sister.
he took out the stuff that simply could not be practiced in a live manner, i.e. throws where the arm is broken etc. Judo might be ju jitsus little sister but because of the self regulation of sports MAs you can bet your ass the quality of teching in most judo schools is better than most ju jitsu schools. ju jitsu was hardly that important in warfare anyway, and all the things that really counted- the basic throws and groundwork- were left intact. the "deadly" stuff was taken out because it could not be taught properly.
after seeing so much of the ufc's and bjj stuff...im getting depressed that judo is not as hardcore as bjj in ground fighting...does judo have counters when ppl are on the mount position against you? i know bjj has lots of moves when someone is on top of you in mount but does judo?
let me make this simple. BJJ was derived from judo. the only difference between judo and bjj groundwork are the leglocks that judo doesnt have. thats it. comprende? the amount of time spent on groundwork depends entirely on the teacher.
... If you're looking for groundwork... Roughly 1/3 of the official kodokan judo techniques fall under the category of groundwork. As someone said though, it really depends on the school as to how much time they're gonna spend concentrating on the ground game.
Yoshida vs Gracie, Expert Judo practioner against an Expert BJJ Practioner, and the judo practioner wins on the ground. OK, maybe that is not strictly fair but anyway, Kodokan Judo really refers to the original syllabus as taught buy Jigoro Kano, this includes locks of the legs etc. Now if you are competing in a modern Judo competition for example the olympics, certain moves are restricted due the the frequency of injuries which occured when they weren't. Different Schools and associations will take there own interpretation of judo, some are focussed on producing competition winners, these schools will tend to spend the majority of their time on standing randori and all tecniques associated. However some schools are primarily focussed on Judo as a MA as it originally was. These schools will cover a greater range of tecniques more likely and will keep truer to the original syllabus as set out by Master Kano. Best way to find out what is going on in the club you are interested in is to go and watch a few lessons. If the club is decent it will almost certainly let you watch a number of lessons free of charge and the coach should be able to answer and questions you may have, a lot of clubs also offer there first lesson free so you can go and have a shot and see if you enjoy it. Now other points, as to Judo being JuJutsu's little sister i think this is a very crass description. Jujutsu was a very well developed art tested over many centuries of brutal combat in Japan. However it was in the teaching of the system that there were problems. Jujutsu tended to be taught by individual masters as a set of tecniques, and these tecniques varied from one master to the next. Jigoro Kano was taught by many eminent masters, however he realised there was not a unifying principle behind all these moves. Master Kano realised that all these tecniques should "make the most effecinet use of mental and physical energy". With this in mind he set about re-examing all the tecniques he had been taught maintaining those which met this principle and disregarding those that did not. To this he added new tecniques which fitted his system and the art of Kodokan Judo was born. So it can be seen that Judo is a refinement of Jujutsu that is not saying it is better as a great number of tecniques exist in both styles, just that it is an adaption and reinterpretation of the original art. As to speed to getting a black belt. If you study under a good teacher you will quickly learn that this should never be the way you look at your skill in the art. Attaining a black belt merely means you have become proficient in the basics of that art, and are ready to begin examining for yourself the principles which govern that art and to understand them. In some places achieving a black belt may be very quick a couple of years, unfortunately the gaining of this black belt will not instantly transform you into a skilled practioner this will only come from many years of study and experience. Steps of Soap Box! K
Then you really have no basis for an informed opinion Go to a Judo club and say that, Judo training is generally a lot more alive than Ju Jitsu, or do you mean BJJ (which is derived from Judo). Kieron, outstanding post mate
I wrote this in a previous thread but I think its relevent to this one too - http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=190290#post190290
so judo has the full catalogue of chokes and cranks...naked forearm choke, guillotine, reverse neck cranck from the guard, triangle, etc. cool, i was unaware. i had been wondering for a few days.
now hang on guy, i said i don't wanna downplay on judo cause i've sparred with more than a few, i know how effective those throws can be when done properly, i was just giving a brief history lesson, and i said little sister because alot of the original teachings were removed.
tekkengod, if you are the god of grappling how was that some judo guys threw you? were they higher in the martial arts pantheon? also, did you invent grappling? as a purely self-defense art judo could be argued to be more practical than bjj. constantly training to end an altercation with an osoto gari is more practical than constantly training to end fights from the guard. of course one should practice both adequately. yes, i know both arts train in both ways with the difference being in the amount of time given to each aspect.
im not sure if neck cranks are allowed in tournaments (I detest the majority of judo tourneys by the way, thanks to the olympics) but we were taught them in my dojo. it will depend a lot on the focus of your school. and im not sure that using the yoshida vs gracie fight is a good idea since that was a BIG mistake by the ref (royce was clearly not out) and royce beat yoshidas ass in the second fight. however Yoshida is still an excellent fighter who uses almost exclusively judo to win his fights, even against big guys like Mark Hunt. theres also an indian guy who was on a recent UFC undercard (I think he was indian?) who uses judo throws very well.
