ok so i have heard of some Judo players having a holier then thou attitude about there art but i have never ran into any. till last week.. so if some of you remember i posted a while back that i was gonna go to Judo tournament using only my bjj and see how i fair. (one my first match via armbar, lost the second after an uchi mata from my opponent dislocated my shoulder) well i was talking about it to some of my fellow students on are club, and mentioned that i wanted to do it again. the way i see it, if you stop cuz you don't like the pain you never learn. well one of are newer students who turned out to have a couple years in judo specifically seemed a bit displeased. he claimes that by doing that im disrespecting Kano's art by impurifiying it with BJJ. in his own words " gracie jiu jitsu is good, but they openly allowed other styles of martial arts into there tournaments. Judo isn't like that and wasn't meant for that. its only for good Judo players." so im disrespecting want Kano wanted it to be like. for lack of better terms i disagree, after all my art wouldn't be hear without Kano. Not to mention all of are BJJ blackbelts are also judo black belts. so theirs some Judo in are techniques anyway. so is there some standard or image im disrespecting by going into a Judo tourny in my BJJ gi? or is it just the ramblings of a old school purist?
So long as you're gi isn't cover in flame/skull/flaming-skull patches, you don't talk a load about how much better BJJ is and you play by all the rules then I really can't see anyone who isn't a self important idiot (like the guy you ran into here) having a problem with it. But I'm a newbie as-well so I suppose my opinion may not mean a whole lot but out of all the BBs I've met I really can't imagine any of them objecting.
Wait, wait, wait...you're impurifying it? BJJ is just an offshoot of Judo, inspired by one of the greatest Judoka from the early Kodokan years. Frankly, the guy was speaking tosh.
It is simple and straightforward - Modern Judo is not what Kano intended:bang:. If it was then it wouldn't have adapted and changed in the last 100 years. Don't get me wrong I am all for change, but you can't be too precious if you adapt. Sounds like your man is a little insecure I started with Judo (aged 13) and continued in various styles till around 40, I also tried Aikido, Karate & Kungfu, but nothing beat Judo in my eyes (for what I was looking for), then I found jiujitsu - no rules, practical and as it's not a sports oriented style it can be as technical or brutal as you want it to be. It fills the gaps in modern judo (for me at least) So I say take your style, play by their rules - then win or lose your skills in that arena will have been tested. They have lost nothing, and you have gained / learned from the experience. Now surely that is a journey worth travelling!
I think that the other student intended was that by competing in Judo with no direct Judo training (I'm not getting into the relationship between Judo and BJJ) you're diluting it into a method of competition, rather then it's own art.
It's a competition. If a Judoka is watching UFC and accidentally tries something he saw on UFC in one of his randori (er watev ya call it) and pulls it off and it happens to be legal then no one should be like, "THOU SHALT NOT JIIUUUJUTIUSIUIZE YOUR OPPONENT" I dunno how to spell Juujutsu in portuguese...lol oh and I was going to inform you that your spelling is horrible but then I read your location...
He's wrong, ignore him. Show someone who'd never done or seen martial arts before a Judo armbar, a Judo choke, or a Judo triangle, and then show them their BJJ equivilents, could they see the difference? Could most of us come to that? You're fighting them under set, and usually very strictly enforced, rules. As long as you fight within those rules and conduct yourself in a sportsmanlike manner what else matters? And yeah, as others have pointed out modern Judo is probably as far away from Kano's teachings as BJJ is, possibly more so.
Some Judo players disrespect the art with their crap, like the turtle. Who came up with that? In saying that, if you want to participate in Judo competitions you'll need a solid grounding in Judo, otherwise you are just going to get hurt. I agree with your friend at your dojo, but for different reasons. You don't know how to fall properly and should do a bit of Judo until entering any more competitions. It's not about winning, it's about creating a safe training environment. Don't enter Judo competitions if your ukemi is not up to scratch.
I'm new to this forum so I have no idea if this was dealt with in your previous thread, but please train some judo before entering competitions. Nothing to do with respecting the art, but you are putting yourself and more to the point, your opponents at risk. The fact you've ended up with a dislocated shoulder should be telling you something. If you want to challenge yourself just find a good competitive judo club and join in the randori. Out of interest what kind of level was this competition?
Just wondered how are you insured? I know that judo clubs have cheap insurance as part of your membership. Will you be covered via your BJJ insurance? Surely another good reason to join a club and get some cover as well as get a better idea of what you are getting yourself into! powchoy
I am asking this more from a novice standpoint, but are there throws in BJJ? Don't remember many. Are they the same ones in Judo? Are yours allowed in Judo? I would think you'd be at a huge disadvantage in the throwing dept. if I am correct.
BJJ throws are much the same as Judo ones. Hip, shoulder, body drop, inner and outer reaps, morote gari etc. Check out a highlight of "Jacare". Great on the ground and some high amplitude throws too. The real difference I see is that in BJJ the throw is not the aim of the game. The submission is. As such they are less precious about how they get to the ground. Have a look at Royce in the early UFC's. Often he just wraps a leg with his and lets gravity take over. He's not bothered about getting an ippon but just getting it to the floor where he can go to work. The only differences I can see would be in the little rules about grips (not being allowed to grab the same side of the gi for very long, no pistol gripping the sleeves/trousers etc) in Judo. I don't think there are the same rules in BJJ so they are freer to get it to the floor any way they can. As I see it BJJ and Judo are two sides of the same coin. One emphasises throwing the other groundwork but the cross over is massive.
Found the original thread - http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92772 It really depends on your attitude. At least in the initial instance you asked (on here) for advice and how to go about things. If you just rocked up in your BJJ gear without doing any sort of research then that's just arrogant. It would be the same thing if you went and started talking yourself or BJJ up. Especially if you started swaggering if you won, or making excuses if you lost. If you are just there to learn and you make it clear from you attitude that you are there to learn, then everything should be fine. However, you still haven't said how your shoulder was dislocated. Was it a result of the throw itself, or the fall? Gold.
Totally agree - attitude is important. In fact it is one of the things that most instructors will agree upon - wrong attitude - there;s the door (ultimately). If you can't fall - don't do judo. They will throw hard & fast, we used to train uchi-komi, and throw 2-3 people at same time (don't ask - it's about building power). If you can throw 2 people - then 1 is easy and much faster. I don't know how good BJJ is, so you have to decide. Train in a judo club first before competing - otherwise arrogance will show through. PLUS you need to learn all the little rules. INSURANCE - please please please, don't expect any organisations basic insurance to cover you for injury and time out from work. Usually the limits are very low (as are the premiums) and you usually have to bear the burden of proof. BJJ experience in a judo comp is ... negligent on your behalf without the proper training. AND remember to think about your training partner...... SAFETY first. I still stand by my comments about the journey being worth taking, and that it is a good way to test your skills, but we all must act responsibly with respect to safety (our and our training / competition partners). Remember without a partner - you can't train BJJ, judo, jiuijitsu etc. so look after them
kata garuma Umm from what I have heard this throw was an adaption of western freestyle wrestlings' fireman carry. Seems there was a guy the Professor Kano was having difficulty beating when he was developing judo so he searched for a solution and found it in the west. So much with polluting judo by adding foreign ideas to it eh :' ). powchoy
And that's why I'm pretty sure the guy meant that by going into Judo competitions with no Judo training is turning Judo from a Martial Art into a method of competition.
