BJJ Basics class?

Discussion in 'Brazilian Jiu Jitsu' started by Obi Wan Shinobi, May 6, 2017.

  1. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    For students I agree.

    For people who are teaching, I would expect them to take an interest in why they are using the methods they are. It also allows for more specific targeting of training goals.

    For example, it's one thing to say "unscripted resistance is better than partnered kata", which is fine enough for a student to say, but I would expect an instructor to at least pondered the reason why that is, and the physiological systems involved.

    If that isn't controversial for S&C, why is it for motor skills?
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Most instructors don't know the S&C either - "do I get fitter and stronger? Do my students?"

    As long as the answer is "yes" the theory is by and large irrelevant

    You can get any number of scientists in the world to explain theory, but their praxis is as often as not missing - which means it's not applied knowledge. It is useful to get SOME idea of why, but not necessary by any measure
  3. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Except the scientists are, or are working with, coaches and medical professionals "in the field". It is based on experimental data.

    Knowing a bit about the systems you are dealing with takes out a lot of trial and error, as well as allowing you to trim the redundant fat from your methods.

    Just a note about the mention of "trial and error" above: that's not to say that heuristic process is not important in an individual's learning, it certainly is, but you don't want exercises and isolation applied by trial and error - you want them specifically targeted in order to increase the probability of that person learning the lesson you want them to.

    EDIT: Plus coaches in a ton of sports are already using this information, even P.E. A-level touches on it, and they've been building on a body of theory and research for around half a century. It's not like I'm a voice in the wilderness with my own crackpot theories, I just take an interest in what I do and take what I can from the best evidence available.

    Lots of instructors will do much of this by intuition and trial and error, but I don't see why anyone should be looked down upon for wanting to expand their knowledge of what they do.
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  4. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Me either I was simply expanding on the "why" :)
    David Harrison likes this.
  5. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Oh i dont think anyone is looking down on you for that, :)

    and if I was trolling I'd point out you were awful quiet on questioning where my videos were after I posted one and asked you to do the same, not to mention if I was really trolling I'd ask you to show us how your understanding of all this relates to your students training and show us how it makes them effective in various situations ...:)
  6. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    So to clarify, are you just asking how to train, the reasons why, and how to put together a training programme/syllabus?
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  7. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    And how it would differentiate from a normal bjj class run by someone with out his knowledge

    Oh and while I'm at it how you would train those attributes outside a class room situation to enhance them the same way you would strength, speed etc
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  8. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    indeedy, I'm not sure DH actually knows how BJJ/MMA/etc classes are run because most of his criticisms are obviously not valid to someone who has even watched a class on you tube nevermind read and studied such things.
  9. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I hadn't seen any of your videos. Evidently you had uploaded some. Not sure what reaction you were hoping for, or what could be said about that.

    Not sure why asking a perfectly valid question would be trolling either...
  10. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I think you've been reading a different thread.

    The closest I've come to criticising anyone's class was when I said that research suggests that alive training works better than kata.

    Epistemology is one of the three cornerstones of the SBG philosophy, so I am merely judging that article on its own terms.
  11. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    You questioned twice where my videos where, even asking Hannibal if he had seen them, implication seemed to be how dare I ask for clips from you when I haven't posted any myself,

    evidently yes I have posted some I put one on this very thread for you to see...

    So I'm not showing double standards here, I've posted now please show us how you train, and how your knowledge has helped shape your training style, unless of course what you teach is super secret, if that's the case I have a hard time seeing what you are doing here if you can't actually share anything of real value?
  12. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    You don't get to decide who posts here.

    You've not written anything of value in this thread, not tackled any of the actual points, you just seem intent on trying to run me off the site. Why is that?

    Others have thanked me for my contributions here, but that is not why I post.

    What value do you think you add? What is the value of your competition clip?

    Do you think every MAP member who doesn't upload video should be banned? I don't get what your problem is to be honest.

    Don't bother replying to this, they are rhetorical questions. I don't really care what your agenda is.
  13. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    You honestly can't think of anything?

    The brain and body aren't separate. There's a reason they call it the neuromuscular system. The drill is the same regardless of the attribute: isolate and exercise.

    If you're really stuck for ideas, here's a couple: Reaction timing / hand eye coordination
  14. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    And a gentle, preemptive reminder to play nice
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  15. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Pinko.... :D
    David Harrison likes this.
  16. Kframe

    Kframe Valued Member

    Back when I did mma for 6 months, we had a grappling class that attended twice a week. I hated grappling. It was so random. For 6 months I never knew what the heck I was doing, or even really how to do it. There was no rhyme or reason to the classes, just what ever the coach thought for the day.. My first lesson was a gift wrap sweep into a choke. It was this constant confusion and feeling like I was not learning anything at all that made me hate grappling.

    I cant understand why I see some people saying the "shark tank" method is soo good. How is learning techniques at random good? I want to try grappling again, but I wont train in some school with the random approach, as I actually want to learn something.
  17. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I think that "shark tank" approach really just means "rolling from day one".

    Our white belts all start off learning the basics. Must be hectic if the first thing you learn is berimbolo.
    Dead_pool likes this.
  18. Kframe

    Kframe Valued Member

    I know that there is to be some confusion, that is to be expected. But I literally learned maybe 1 thing from that entire 6 months.. Rolling from day one makes no sense if they have no idea what the heck they are doing. They literally get nothing from it. I am amazed that the development of a quality curriculum isn't more wide spread. The Gracies implemented one and most of the community took a dooky on them for it.
  19. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Nope, one lot of gracies started grading online and the community (including rickson gracie, roller gracie etc) said it was a very bad idea, they agreed and stopped grading online.
    Knee Rider likes this.
  20. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Some academies don't have the numbers to put on basics classes and you have to mix it up

    In that situation you have to work harder as a student to develop your fundamentals

    Either way it probably takes 6+ months to start getting the hang of moving on the floor

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