But like I said earlier, prisons ending up like that where they become cesspits and turn people by necessity into harder criminals I think results in a large way from people having the kind of attitude you do Hatsie. Its a prison system where people don't care what happens there because they're prisoners and where the focus is on retribution. Its also an extra step off the lack of rehabilitation. Rehab isn't just about making people think the crime they did was naughty. Leave aside the mental mass murderer type cases for a second and look at more normal crimes. If someone commits theft because they have no qualifications, no income and no future then putting him in prison for 5 years and then dumping him back in the exact same situation and now with a criminal record and I'd be amazed if they didn't do it again. Its the same thing with gangbanging. Take someone who lives in a ghetto and runs with a street crew, arrest him for something, dump him in a system drowned in gang violence, then put him back in the same ghetto and why wouldn't he go straight back to banging?
Why multiple cases? Why is a few lives more important than one ? The thing is ( now that I'm thinking) and after reading David's post about " is it ok to rape and torture daddy?" What makes us better than the rapists and torturers if we do the same? Bit of a dilemma, but were not personally raping and torturing the guy but were allowing it to happen ( like the Brazilian prison guards). And I think you nailed it, 'they deserve it' the innocent kid didn't. What about locking him in a room , a plain room, given no contact with anyone or any entertainment. Food and water passed through a hatch, no going outside. Is that more or less cruel than allowing him to be beaten and raped a few times before he's killed or necks himself?. Given the choice of this solitary for life or the firing squad what would you choose?
1 person dead is not as bad as 10 people dead, imo. But I've stepped off the notion of killing these people. Ultimately, there's just no point in doing it. Money isn't a reason. Neither is self-satisfaction. And in reality the death penalty is a bad idea anyway. Are you a religious person, hatsie?
Really? Why? So if god forbid, that one person was your kid or familly and the 10 were living in a third world country. And think about it from the third world country family's POV. I too am rethinking my knee jerk thought process slightly. Perhaps the solitary idea is the best then? IMO it is crueler, and if you have the wrong person you can always let them out "oops sorry about that, off you pop..." Death penalty is bad if you get the wrong person only. Religious , yes I am, in a god/ cosmic consienceness sort of way though. I've always thought that the holy books are a crock ( pick any one) And that the whole popular religion thing is nothing more than mass crowd control and taxing.
You're removing my choice to be objective if you put it like that. It's not a fair equation. A fair equation would be, 1 dead third world person or 10 dead third world persons. Putting people in prisons is not about redemption. Everyone knows this, but they all decide to ignore that fact because they want self-satisfaction. Does that mean you're agnostic? Do you believe in karma? I ask, because you seem hell-bent on getting your self-satisfaction from punishing prisoners who did bad stuff. I don't mean to patronize, but do you understand why self-satisfaction is bad in this particular issue?
Yes they can. Can we stop with the sweeping generalisations, it's a spectrum and as that implies there is a range of severity to it.
What does agreesive or violent behaviour indicate often with ASD? I'd be interested in seeing any sources you have for the sexual abuse when compared to neurotypicals.
Depends on the child and their condition. Many people with ASD are perfectly capable of understanding right from wrong. You guys have picked one of the most complex of disorders to use you know, as far as trying to set concrete standards in what that "type" may or may not do.
Actually, the worst part is that I have an indirect cousin who is autistic and he does just fine. Well, not so much on the wife and family part, but he does good things. He referees soccer games and does gardening and stuff. Nice guy in general. It's kind of awful what I said back there.
As I understand it, a variety of factors can produce such behaviour, but I'm no expert. I hope you don't think that I was trying to imply that autistic children are necessarily any more dangerous than any other child. The sad fact is, they are far more likely to be abused than abuse others. The honest reason it was one of the examples that sprang to mind is because I know someone who works with very violent teenagers, and a number of them are on the autism spectrum.
I remember a quote... I can't remember where it was from, it may have been Roger Ebert of all people. "War is about believing something enough that you would kill for it, even more so war is about believing in something enough that you are willing to become a killer for the rest of your life" People cheer on these acts of violence.... but how many of them would actually commit it? Sure we can talk about not wanting a child rapist to be living next door to us but how much further up the ladder is a prison rapist? Does he get to live next door? I find it difficult to cheer on any act that is done by the kind of person I wouldn't want living within a hundred mile radius of me.
I bet you'd feel different if it affected you personally. I'd buy popcorn to watch a convicted kiddie fiddler ( caught in the act, no doubt at all) get the crap beat out of him, and I wouldn't care a jot about him either. Talk of trying to dehumanized these people, there's no need, as they lose the privillage of any consideration or respect when they do these things, they are no longer human! You wouldn't worry about killing germs with bleach would you? Go on the www and read the comments, most are similar to mine, many are much worse! Come on MAP and its everyone playing off to one another about how peaceful and enlightened you are, turning the other cheek blah blah, ego stoking. At least I'm being honest! Not trying to suck up to the cool crew, and I wouldnd be hypocritical later. " oh you can't ask me to decide if a familly member is more important than 10 third world people, it has to be one third world person against 10 [ 'as I really don't care much about them']. Their families care a out theirs the same as you care about yours! Everyone is on an equal footing on the planet except murderers/ rapists and pedo's etc.
I'll never be happy about someone being gang raped and murdered, no matter how terrible they were. If this guy did rape and kill his kid, he should be thrown in jail for life. But as a civilized person I don't think rape/murder are ever, under any circumstances, alright.
That's your opinion and I respect it, however, who has to foot the bill to keep this sort of scum alive? the hardworking, law abiding people the scum rape and kill! I'm not happy about a dollar I earn going to them. If they were thrown in some inescapable pit living off rain water rats and insects maybe that would be ok.
How about we flip that around? What if your kid got accused of paedophilia, then beaten and raped before they got convicted? If you want to get personal, then at least look at both sides. Obviously if a situation involves people you know directly your responce is going to be different. This is exactly why people aren't allowed to be involved with a court case if they have any direct connection to anyone involved. The system is meant to judge people based on the facts presented and the moral framework of the whole society, not a sense of personal aggrievement. There is actually an interesting point that a criminology lecturer of mine used to make; the criminal justice process(in Australia at least) has nothing to do with getting justice for the victim. Criminal charges are brought against people because they have committed an offence against the state; that is, breaking its laws. I take exception to the term ego stoking. Just because someone expresses an opinion different to your own doesn't mean they're being insincere. There is every chance that prison rapists are just regular old rapists whose actions are, in this specific case, condoned by society.
So you are gratified and entertained by acts of unspeakable barbarism, especially against a group you have mentally othered and advocate horrifying and degrading torture, abuse and death? You appear to have more in common psychologically with the people you abhor than you do with me.
Hatsie, how come your response to a lot of posts has been "what if it happened to your kids?" I don't see why you feel a need to take crimes personally like that or why you think that's a valid way to look at them? There's a reason the victims and their associates aren't the ones who sit on juries.
