First full Bohurt yesterday.

Discussion in 'Western Martial Arts' started by Dan93, Oct 24, 2016.

  1. Dan93

    Dan93 Valued Member

    I have been training Bohurt for a few weeks now mostly due to lack of armour (its darn expensive) I have been mostly been doing alot of pell work and sparring with training weapons and Daido Juku type helmets.

    Yesterday was a open session (last before a big tournament in Flanders) so we had a lot of people down.
    After a wrestling session it was time to arm up and go outside for group and singles sparring. One of the fighters competing in Flanders had turned up really ill and could not face training in armour so kindly, knowing I am keen to progress in the sport offered me use of his armour so I could try out full Bohurt rules sparring.

    First thing I really noted after getting into my armour was how heavy the helmet was and the strain on my neck, I also had a problem with my right leg plates preventing me kicking on that side but better than nothing.

    The week previous when sparring without armour I had been using footwork to pretty good effect, in armour as I was warned its a different kettle of fish and pretty tiring so had to work around that.

    It felt pretty weird holding the sword in metal gauntlets maybe as I could not feel my grip on the sword and was concerned about losing my sword. all of the sparring/pell work I had done to this point was without gauntlets so this is something I will work on.

    First fight started with an exchange and a few good shield strikes and me dropping kicks to the legs from the outside to get to clinch to pushing into a nearby fence so I could try and work for a throw. ending up fighting for position and throwing knees and headbutts. Fighting in armor is possibly one of the most tiring things I have ever done.

    Second fight, really strong opponent with good sword skills so clinched and he was really good at controlling my head in the clinch (I can still feel it the day after), The felt liner in my helm slipped so was practically fighting blind for a while.... Gassed after a couple of minutes and finding gym fit and armour fit is not the same, recommended to get a weighted vest for my stamina work.

    Hooked and really glad I got the opportunity and a lot to work on, pretty much a noob in this sport and pretty humbling and unforgiving but getting an idea of my strong areas and areas much in need of improvement..

    Got some recommended contacts for procuring my armour once I choose a western or eastern European style so I can get into competition with the rest of the team..
     
  2. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    I took a peek at some of the bohurt stuff and came away wondering how , if it is ''full contact'' , people didn't get fairly bad injuries. I know that watching the dog brothers stuff (with non edged weapons if I recall correctly) people still got banged up a lot.

    I could see someone with a decent pike or halbred going to town on people's ankles or wrists. Are these targets excluded or ? I noticed that one reference said touching a third point to the ground was enough to constitute a loss. Is this the sort of rules you peeps were following? Again, rules are necessary but it seems that if you have a weapon that you use in a crouched position then you would be severely limited in what you could do.

    Sounds like at least you had a great time!! :' D

    LFD
     
  3. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    What's bohurt? Is the rule set or the organization or what? :dunno:

    I watched this video on YouTube (below)....Can I come and can I use an axe?

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q64TjJ78K9U"]Bitwa Narodów - Bohurt - YouTube[/ame]
     
  4. Dan93

    Dan93 Valued Member

    No it is full contact, no thrusting techniques allowed and strikes to the back of the neck apart from that a large repertoire of techniques are allowed. Attacks to the wrists are allowed, I was discussing this last night with one of the fighters. In training sparring is done 3 min rounds until someone is on the ground.
    There is a point system in Pro-fight which is one on one but I am to new to the sport to fully understand it.
     
  5. Dan93

    Dan93 Valued Member

    Ruleset for the Battle of the nations, loads of stuff online.

    yes you can use an axe! in fact Odin commands it!
     
  6. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    Oh, they do. Battle of the Nations is quite uh, severe. Muscles torn from the bone, bits of fingers getting lost, concussions (of course), have all happened. Just don't fight your training partners that way.
     
  7. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    I'm not an armoured fighter by any means, since I've never even worn period armour. All my HEMA stuff is "blossfechten" style.

    However, Meyer advised in his manual to practice with one's weapons and armour every day. Even modern HEMA gear is hot and somewhat restrictive, requiring a lot of practice to get used to. I can imagine armour is worse.

    I'm glad you're having fun with this!
     
  8. Dan93

    Dan93 Valued Member

    It was an experience!

    I was surprised how quickly I tired wearing armour as it was hot to say the least and heavy on the shoulders. Movement was pretty good through although dancing around I was without armour in sparring is pretty much off the cards. Main issue I had was I could not feel my grip on my sword through the gauntlets and I found that very off putting but it is something I am sure I will get used to in time.

    Looking at getting a weighting vest for my gym cardio as I am sure I will get some funny looks wearing a brigantine on the treadmill.
     
  9. Rand86

    Rand86 likes to butt heads

    Bring the sword as well? :D
     
  10. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    Taking away thrusting techniques really hampers anyone using a staff or spear but I can see it from a safety point of view. It just might cause some odd perspectives of combat (sort of like BJJ not allowing guard slams ;' ) . Having your ankle swept/thrusted, particularly with an edged weapon could really cause problems.. The females nobles in Japan used naginata to great effect! :' )

    So I wasn't clear, ankles are or aren't a target?

    Thanks, LFD
     
  11. Alansmurf

    Alansmurf Back on the mats !! Supporter

    Fruit loop Dan ......Dont be bringing armour on the mats !!!!

    ++Well done buddy +++
     
  12. Dan93

    Dan93 Valued Member

    Its done for safety reasons. Its a hard martial sport and thats how I treat it. If they allowed thrusts there would be trips to the local mortuary.

    A lot of lessons can be gleened from it through. Fighting in groups of up to 21 is good for awareness training and fighting on mass. Guys are pretty fit for this type of training and we also do a fair amount of wrestling as there is a lot of grappling in armour.

    Oh ankles are fair game as a target.

    Dont knock it til you try it.. harder than it looks...
     
  13. Dan93

    Dan93 Valued Member

    Cheers Smurf.

    You joke but throws are allowed so would love to work on this further. Ukemi in armour would be a first for me through...
     
  14. Pointy

    Pointy Valued Member

    I would agree with the others, wrists and ankles as fair game is quite mad. Fair dues to you for giving it a go. Is there a reason, within the rule set, for allowing these areas to be a target?

    As far as I understand the armour used in Battle of the Nations and other similar competitions, like Bohurt, is different to reenactment or reproduction armour in material, in other things such as harnesses, and having to meet certain safety standards,etc. So I'd imagine the cost would be different as well. On average how much would the armour, and perhaps a weapon (and shield) be?

    Wrestling in armour does sound to be great fun though.
     
  15. Dan93

    Dan93 Valued Member

    Hi Pointy.

    No reason that I am aware of but I am new to the sport but it does have a pretty open ruleset. Normally see people with Pollaxes sniping legs and ankles from the outside when fighting on-masse.

    Armour is pretty expensive and looking at £1000 min for a full set of armour suitable of HMB. There is a pretty good page on Facebook with armorers selling HMB armour and the best stuff comes from Eastern Europe where Bohurt is pretty big. HMB swords I have seen are around the £150+ mark.

    Still getting my gear together as my wife would go crazy if I spent that amount of money in one go so buying it gradually.

    Safety wise I noted they had a issue with suppliers from India on the FB group selling off cheap armour as HMB suitable resulting in some injuries but most of the armorers are known in the sport, although I plan to test mine as much as possible before.

    Wrestling in armour is good fun but very tiring. We train at a local primary school when it is closed on the weekend and one of the training practices they use is to wrestle inside a small climbing frame to train their close quarter work. Funny as hell to watch.
     
  16. Rand86

    Rand86 likes to butt heads

    Serious question, for a change - what's the level noise like?

    I imagine having metal whacking on metal all around you must be like being inside a bell?
     
  17. Dan93

    Dan93 Valued Member

    Not as bad as you would think, I noticed it the first time but was so full of Adrenalin too notice, I was trying not to get hit in the head through. There is a felt or quilt lining so I assume that helps dampen noise.
     
  18. Pointy

    Pointy Valued Member

    1000 pounds is quite a bit at once alright. Although I know what I would choose between that and a car. And its better for the environment... :p

    What differences (or similarities) do you find between throwing in armour and out of armour? Are the entries into the throws different or the 'hinge' (where the opponent's body meets yours as you throw)? How do you, or do you, adapt 'kuzushi' from your JJ (?) experience to Bohurt?

    Sorry for all the questions, its something I have been curious about for a while (after following a few HEMA channels on youtube).
     
  19. Dan93

    Dan93 Valued Member

    That is something I will have to let you know later Pointy as I am still pretty new to the sport and still looking at how to adapt my throws to armoured combat. I have seen a lot of reaping type throws in training i.e. Ouchi/Kouchi Gari ect. I have seen a few opportunities for Uke Goshi when tied up in the clinch but its something I need to experiment with.
     
  20. Pointy

    Pointy Valued Member

    Thanks Dan, good luck with the training.
     

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