Ballet Vs. Martial Arts

I used to post semi-regularly on this site for a short time, and psoted about Kata last. I mentioned I was a dancer and someone desided to laugh at me because I used a concept of Modern Dance ideology to explain something about Kata. This person said he watched Bruce Lee training videos which struck me as so funny that I never posted a responce (Bruce Lee was the Nation Cha Cha campion of Hong Kong in his day). But it got me thinking . . .

Martial arts, as practiced by most people these days seems, in my opinion, to lack a certain amont of technique and understanding that any and all dancers know fundamentally. My personal insight tells me that the two are family, so closely related that truely distinguishing the two from each other becomes imposible except through purpose and intent.

Proper technique for dance involves rotating with the correct muscles, not simply rotating. A ballet dancer lifts leg or holds what looks like a horse or mountain stance using the whole thigh (not just the top muscles but all four quads) as well as the lower back and under the knees. Most martial artists have no idea how to do this.

Another example is in the use of energy which is identical in both disciplines. Stretching and pushing the energy from the center, down the arm, and hour the fist/fingers is exactally the same.

Stating it all simply, I find dance to be a benefit to my martial arts rather than a hinderance. But that's just mine.

I'm doing a research paper for a class and was looking at taking a poll. I was looking for people's opinions about the usefulness of dance technique to a martial artist, particularly strikng arts but other forms are welcome to comment. If the perticipants could please describe how they would perform a particular technique and what is important in its execution, I would really appreciate it.

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated, thank you. Please post your responses and opinions in as professional a manner as you can; this is for research after all.

Thank you again.

 

well that proves it- katas are for ballerinas

 

Oh so thats what their called i thought they were called karateka...thanks for clearing that up ikken!

 

Not many of the people here would have a lot of experience in both areas.
Dancers have to be strong, flexible, fast and remain balanced while in motion.
Do those requirements seem familiar to MA people.
It might be interesting for you to share your dancing based training routinesand see if there is any comment.
I knew at least two professional dancers who were both black belts in martial arts and I cant match my mate who is a dancer for fitness.
Luckily I can always whomp him with a stick

 

I dont believe I ever shared this here with any of you.... I was a ballerina for 10 years . I believe the flexibility has help immensely with my training in the martial arts!

 

More hidden talents KickChick....you never cease to amaze with your skill!

 

I knew an ex-dancer for a while (when I tried out nin-jutsu) and he was very flexible, supple and strong. I wouldn't mind having a look at an exercise routine either Masamune7. As people have already posted, it sounds like it could be of benefit!

 

Dancing...martial arts without power or focus, surely.

 

I don't remember which one, but I was told a Japanese master once said:
'NEVER GIVE A SWORD TO A MAN WHO CAN'T DANCE'. Makes sense to me.

I wonder if doing MA means that you will eventually become a better dancer?
Never seen that discussed.

 

ballet definitely gives an edge

I've trained with a lot of people where I live that have had a ballet background and this gives them a considerable edge with flexibility/agility. I used to train with this guy that was a ballet star when he was a kid and he had the most wicked kicks and pulled them off with ease..he was the type of guy that could stand in a door frame and do a side kick/split while standing if you know what I mean. He was doing this stuff when I was 13-14...I've trained with a half dozen girls or so with a ballet background and they caught onto the kicks fairly fast.
The originator of this thread talked about some knucklehead laughing at the similarities between dance/ballet and kata..In one of Mas Oyama's books he shows pictures of karate techniques and ballet movements that look similar. I believe the book is "Essential Karate"..correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I would think dance would give you some fantastic feel for your body movements (espcially ballet) and an overall understanding of your own body mechanics.

All I know is that my intructer is one of the fastest people I've seen when it comes to sparring, and from what I've seen, he's also a pretty good dancer

 

KickChick - you've got some fine biceps there!

 

Thank you for your help

thank you all very much for responding. so far no one ha posted a counter argument, which strikes me as odd. Anyway, some of you have requested an idea of things to do help that come from ballet or whatever. I'll try and post the article I'm writing later, so ya'll can read it. Until then, some things to do:

Try to do all of your movement from the back or underside of your legs. the inner thighs, the gluts, and the back of the knee. I know snap kicks are common, but they are only using a few of the possible muscles for each manuever.

Once you get good at that . . . add on. Remember that to get all of the possible power and speed, all of your movement must originate from the center of the body. this is a few inches below the naval. Try to move with that engaged and pushed downward. Keep the ribs nice and tight. It is easier to think of this, and do it, if the practitioner concentrates of pushing their chest, guts, and legs, into the floor.

Most of us only use superfiscal muscles when we move. The old six-pack, part of the quads, and other such things. Whether walking forward for punches, standing around and striking, or extending out some kick and wacking the other guy, there are more muscles available than just those superfiscal muscles we work most. There are lots of tiny little muscles all over the body that people hardly use because they don't know how. that is the trick to movement.

Stronger stances, more powerful blows and blocks, better looking bodies are just some of the advantages of adding dance technique to your repatoir. so go through your katas, or forms, or whatever you want to do, with those two things in mind. the difference; particularly over time, will show a big difference.

Take care.

 

I've never done anything as intense as ballet (and full marks to the guys fit, strong, and flexible enough to do it), but the guys in class never worked out how I was able to pick up the hyungs (kata) as quickly and accurately as I have.

The answer: a history of modern ballroom and sequence dancing in my younger days. The ability to move in a controlled manner, and be concious of where each part of your body is (and which way it is travelling) must be core to all of our arts - added to that the learning of specific sequences, and you have a shortcut to hyungs.

Never knew about B.L. being into Cha Cha - but I love the latin rhythms. (I've got a couple of MAP dance partners already in my sights )

Sequence dancing is all well and good, but when you move into modern ballroom (especially the quickstep) then you have a number of bodies moving forwards, backwards and sideways - a great test of observation and response. I've joked elsewhere that some people treat the quickstep as a martial art.

Never did solo competitions, but one person that did confided that a oriental couple were the most polite on the floor. Everytime they were bumped into the gentleman said "Ah So" (or something like that )

Somehow I ended up in an 'old-time formation dance team'. More (and longer) sequences to learn, and the extensive training of peripheral vision (to get the lines straight without turning your head). Once learned - never lost.

The down side is that I was always taught to stand tall and be light - now I'm having to sink down into my stances, and it feels un-natural but I'll learn. [Think Tango! - Think Tango!!]

Just my 2-peneth...

 

ah the forbidden dance!

About Bruce Lee being Hong Kong's National Cha Cha Champion... yes its true.

Bruce Lee started dancing when he was about 14 years old. His favorite dance was the Cha Cha. As you can imagine, he became very good at it. He used to carry a card listing over 100 cha cha steps.
Eventually, he became the Hong Kong Cha Cha Champion before coming to America. His first job in the US was as a dance instructor. He would also attend social dances on occassion where he would sometimes give an impromptu Kung Fu demo during intermission.

The ‘empty-mindedness’ applies to all activities…such as dancing. If the dancer has any idea at all of displaying his art well, he ceases to be a good dancer for his mind stops with every motion." - Bruce Lee

 

Thank you - the similarities between me and Bruce were few and far between, but you've just given me a few more

I'll probably never be 'fit' - I find most physical activity (jogging, lifting weights, etc) totally boring - but I can totally lose myself in moving to music. It's the one time I can let myself flow.

(Enjoy the Cha Cha - good cardio workout - but looooove the Rhumba)

 

I'd have to go with Jang Bong. Tango can only help your martial arts. Dance gives you grace, blending experience, power generation, focus, awareness of surroundings and enough muscle to give someone such a wallop round the ear that they'll never mess with you again.

It also impresses the ladies like martial arts never seems to.

Cheers,

Matt.

 

Well I wonder which country will host the first MAP dance.

The traditional scots ceilidh is similar to a grappling class anyway.