Aikido in a "Real Fight"

Discussion in 'Aikido' started by xplasma, Jun 17, 2003.

  1. Hannibal

    Hannibal Angriest MAP resident.... Supporter

    With cognitive recall that gets to be a more complete picture - combined with "preloading" of specifics it gets even easier
  2. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    One thing about cognitive recall to me is that the mind remembers more than what gets processed immediately into the conscious thought. Sometimes details take minutes or even hours to get processed. The mind can also play tricks in this way.

    Hard to explain, but if you glance quickly around a corner like you are taking a picture, you can play back into your mind what you saw. However, you need to actually give yourself a moment for your mind to catch up. Training helps to set priorities on what to look for first (such as anything that stands out as unusual, number of enemies, number of friendlies, and their positions).

    For something like a two minute round in a ring fight, you won't have everything in memory, but you can have certain snap shots that you can go back to and process after the fact.
  3. Hannibal

    Hannibal Angriest MAP resident.... Supporter

    Pretty much :)
  4. Thaistory

    Thaistory New Member

    Aikido demonstration on the streets

    There seems to be a lot of negativity in reaction to this video of the highest ranking masters in Thailand.


    I wonder what's your take. I trained under Shihan Fukakusa which performs these demonstrations.
  5. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member

    It's still just a demonstration.
  6. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Yep still just a very compliant demo.

    Also it shows some pretty serious failings from a self defence perspective. There is no awareness, yes it's a demo to show waza but it does so in a self defence scenario and so should incorporate good practice for self defence.
  7. ned

    ned Valued Member

    I imagine most common criticisms would be too compliant to be realistic and low percentage/high risk gun/knife defence.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2016
  8. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    The response should fit the scenario.

    Paying off a mugger is a valid option in self defense. I would have liked to see man with the knife at his throat give his valuables to the attacker.

    It is a valid option to fight in a public place rather than allowing the attacker take you to a secluded location. This is true even if the attacker has a weapon . It would make sense for the woman to take on an armed attacker if was an attempted abduction. But she does not finish any of her opponents when they are on the ground. There is nothing to stop the aggressor from continuing the attack.
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2016
  9. Hannibal

    Hannibal Angriest MAP resident.... Supporter

    That is incredibly average technique done in jeans, with several instances where the defender would be dead or wounded severely
  10. greg1075

    greg1075 Valued Member

    My take is that it's nothing more than a demo, and a pretty horrible one at that.
  11. greg1075

    greg1075 Valued Member

    Always the same song. Aikido techniques and principles work fine if regularly tested against resistance. Sadly even many of the places that do "combative Aikido" only have their students train vs compliant ukes. That's when poop is gonna go south real quick 'on da street'.
  12. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Page 77 and still no clips of it actually working, just silly compliant drills that would get you killed against a real knife or would have thought people would have seen the light by now...
    If aikido training methods principles and techniques worked as they are sold to the public as working we would be seeing at least one semi decent video by now
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2016
  13. Giovanni

    Giovanni nefarious editor Supporter

    i think that, as so often happens in these "debates", people miss the boat completely.

    the full quote actually has more enlightening stuff in it--just click the arrow.
  14. Giovanni

    Giovanni nefarious editor Supporter

    two additional thoughts...

    i'm pretty sure m. ueshiba did not set out to create a lethal martial art--one.

    two, cross-training is essential. as is other types of training, like awareness, de-escalation, escape strategies, etc.

    or put another way....if all you train in is bjj, yet you can't take anyone down to the ground, then what's the point? <i train bjj> lol.

  15. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Mmm because some bjj comps start from onnthe floor, and normally the competition's espect you to engage on the ground at some point??

    I can count the number of guys I know who train bjj for self defence on one hand, and they all train other arts, the rest train for fun and fitness and because they love grappling if that's why you train aikido for the love of the art itself that's great, but then the threat title and the whole thread becomes redundant as does stupid compliant videos like the one posted.
  16. Giovanni

    Giovanni nefarious editor Supporter

    which bjj comps start on the ground? i've competed in several ibjjf's, and i've only observed naga's. i'm curious, i really don't know.

    i actually do train bjj for fighting, but i have a lot of fun doing it too and i love sport grappling. i've also dabbled in boxing and escrima, but that's not my primary focus. i have a lot of fun doing bjj and competing. we do a lot of standup, gi and no gi at my gym.

    i have trained aikido and loved it. but it's not fighting.

    and yes, i agree. the whole thread title is a bit nonsensical. and the videos are dumb.
  17. aikiMac

    aikiMac boxing is fun Moderator Supporter

    I'll elaborate for the OP.

    Aikido is when the uke/attacker starts balanced, meaning that he's actually attacking for real, but the nage/defender makes him be off balance. I watched only the first half of the video, but in that first half the attackers *never* started from a place of balance. They were not actually trying to attack. They were already off balance when it started.

    That means it was not a demonstration of aikido. It was ... I don't know what it was.

    Second, and ignoring now the issue of balance, aikido works by locking up the joints so that the attacker can only move in one direction. In the first half of the video this happens only once. The rest of the time the attacker has freedom to move in any direction. (And that's why Hannibal says the defender would be hurt or killed.)

    Sorry, Thaistory, but that's why I don't like this video.
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2016
  18. Giovanni

    Giovanni nefarious editor Supporter

    right. as aikimac mentioned, when i trained aikido, i was drilled in the following....

    evade attack --> unbalance --> perform technique

    it's really actually quite simple when you get down to it. and that progression has many, many uses in all kinds of "arts" or "fighting"--say bjj. this is why i say aikido isn't fighting, it's something else. "principles" or "instruction". i really don't even think that the techniques used in most syllabi really even apply. and the way i understand it, it was actually kisshomaru not morihei that codified the syllabus.
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2016
  19. greg1075

    greg1075 Valued Member

    It's not because a training method is bad that the principles are bad. The techniques probably need adjustments to work under pressure but the principles can remain sound. I use aikido principles for off balancing from the knee position often in bjj. When I asked a local bjj black belt who's also an aikido 5th degree whether his aikido helped his bjj, he said that it's when he realized that bjj was aikido on the floor that his bjj really took off...fwiw.
  20. Giovanni

    Giovanni nefarious editor Supporter

    i went from aikido to bjj. i can tell you without a doubt that aikido helped me and continues to help me do bjj. not the techniques, like you're not going to be able to do a kote gaeshi for instance nor would i want to, but the principles, definitely.

    for instance, ever get stuck trying to sweep someone? yeah, probably because you didn't unbalance them first. :)

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