your perception of Ilmu in Silat

Discussion in 'Silat' started by Raden-Rahmat, Jun 12, 2008.

  1. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    The comment wasn't aimed at you. It has to do with the tendency for most discussions to devolve into theology.
  2. Saiful Azraq

    Saiful Azraq Valued Member

    Salam hormat Tellner,

    I understand your frustration, but I think this particular thread was instructive. It just got lost because of a lack of definition of terms and stray comments that could have just been left alone.

    And because of that, it's my opinion that the thread actually evolved into theology.

    Salam persilatan,
  3. Kertas

    Kertas Valued Member

    Ilmu Batin... ok, you guys have explained it in your terms. Allow me to say that both words are Arabic in origin. So are many many words in the Melayu dictionary/vocabulary.

    Ilmu in arabic is I'lmun/Al-I'lmu - knowledge/science. Batin in arabic (Baatin) could also mean Inner. So here in cape town, we still use the words in its arabic context. Even the word Rohani comes from the arabic Ruuhaaniyy.

    The word we use for bad ilmu we would refer to it as Doekum/Dukun werk or Sihr, meaning Black magic works.

    I hope that would clear up some things. Just to note to all that the malays in Cape Town were separated from our homelands in Indonesia for more than 2 centuries. We have lost most of the language. Our parents however still use many bahasa words like Jamang (toilet), unang (invite for wedding), keras (a roudy person), Lanjah (to be confident in knowing your thing), and many more. Some of you might laugh at our pronunciation but we lost the language almost completely.

    We have a cemetary which was named "Tana Baru", as the Javanese/indonesian captives or slaves were buried there many years ago. It was considered their new home.

    Regards :)
  4. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    Ahhh ... now I understand.

    Salam and well met brother!

  5. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    You know what, I had one of those keris but one day when I was cleaning it the blade fell out of the handle, I just couldn't find I'm just left with a handle........any tips on how to find the blade....anyone?
  6. Kertas

    Kertas Valued Member

    Innaa lillaahi..

    Sorry to hear about your loss Narrue. I suggest you get a new keris. Though i know a friend who apparently lost his keris handle while cleaning it. He only has the blade now. You two might wana hook up. Wot you say huh?
  7. Raden-Rahmat

    Raden-Rahmat Valued Member

    keris handles n blades?

    salam alykum ppl n gooday to those not using the arabic greeting. i tink wires are crossed more than anything else. I admit my error in stating "ilmu" instead of "ilmu batin". because im of the anak terlupa, we not only were lost but lost alot of heritage too as Abang Kertas briefed the Pesilat Council. to those who felt this was islamic, i stated all points of view of the topic is welcomed but not attitude. to those who felt muslims were contributing, well its not our fault we wana discover the mentality of others n learn from it. to those who have "dark aged" things, pretty much of this era is darker than ever. if dark is classified by the absence of technology or economic development then maybe referred to electric power in cities. and if dark plays around the magician n sorcerer in Arthurs time, then that same darkness is alive today in various formats n templates. And those who feel sciences are not to be sciences and are subjected to certain technical & intellectual laws/rules, then know that everything is a science and an art, whether we accept or not. to those who found it hilarious to treat this as a linguistic gymnasium, it was partly but the plot was in reality off target. to those who felt spirituality isnt religious, its only religious teachis that have expounded on spirituality. as in essence, God is the focus of all beings, n God is spiritual. id say everyone including myself has mited knowledge of the spiritual realm so discussion on it should move to a thread where experts could be sourced too. To those who found it amusing to degrade religions n religious ppl, it is not called for...Above all, every question demands a decent response, not smacks of disrepect n arrogance. it doesnt befit the mature human intelligence to misbehave unwarrant. All i said in the 1st post is, we are here to learn n everyone should explain there situations if they have knowledge of ilmu batin. lets just focus please cos im learning alot so far..especoially from Nadzrin...very well thought at times n sometimes shady. but mostly well researched. Once again. pleased to discover mentality on this issue. btw, Walang Kadung, mind explaining how your ilmu batin is executed and its basis.
  8. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    Ma'af lahir batin my friend for anything I said that might sit wrongly with you.
    To answer your question above ... through focused meditation on our
    nature of who and what we are, during every moment that we have the awareness to focus. This is including directed meditation i.e. walking meditation (walking the circle), sitting meditation ... both are tapa pamrih or meditation with purpose to ngrayang raga or to explore every part of physiology, which opens up our psychology to inspection in the process. The process sometimes gradually, sometimes through epiphany (AM) removes layers of mind clutter, pre-concepts and judgements and brings back into the immediate reality. Being in the now is very important for personal survival :).
    Awareness gained loses separation between body and mind ... you will feel the state of every part of the body, while your mind returns to becoming the tool it was designed for with re-aligned with body or ... psychology and physiology are integrated and work in synchronised way ... in this way you become one with reality ... in the moment of forever.

  9. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    Ok tell you wot, I will purchase the invisible blade, fit it to my invisible handle and sell the complete keris to you.... what you think? It's going to be a bit pricey though because keris like that are so hard to come by these days:D
  10. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    LOL ... sounds like you could both start an industry! Invisible keris ... very magikal, the perfect gift for the pseilat in your life who has everything :D.
  11. Saiful Azraq

    Saiful Azraq Valued Member

    Salam hormat,

    Good grief! I can imagine it now... after weeks of waiting, the DHL guy rings my doorbell and hands me an invisible package. After signing it out, I run in and rip the invisible wrapper, open up the invisible box and take out an invisible letter from the manufacturer, an invisible certificate of authenticity and, ahhh... my invisible Semenanjung hulu-ed, beautifully invisibly pamored blade! Just not look at that amazing ganja! That incredibly detailed pendongkok!

    Wait... what's that not written on the invisible blade? Must be written in kawi. S-C-H-M-U-C-K?


    Salam persilatan,
  12. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    Hey Walang Kadung, what's the perfect gift for someone who has everything?:D
  13. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    Weeell ... I haven't actually got an invisible keris just at the moment (got a shipment arriving next week though!) ... but if you'll settle for an invisible blade ... I've got a handle ... it's nearly as good, it's genuine, honest, I got it off Ebay with certificates 'n all... lol!
  14. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    Actually the perfect gift for someone who has everything is………………….nothing, or in this case nothingness;)
  15. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    Notice how the people preforming these Ilmu techniques are well nourished, is Ilmu some peoples excuse to avoid hard physical exercise?

    [ame=""]Kesan jurus Pasak Bumi - YouTube[/ame]

  16. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    Heh Narrue ... you could be right (patting own stomach :D).

    Personally though I'm not impressed by this type of kebatinan displays ... just the way I must be wired .. lol. A good pencak duel is much more entertaining!
  17. Raden-Rahmat

    Raden-Rahmat Valued Member

    DHL-invisible courier...i can see that happening!!!

    sounds like those pc games where you cloak your team players...hmmm everything becomes virtual in reality...maybe thats whats implied by virtual reality...hope im not gona get another scientific lesson...

    Mas Walang Kadung, no hard feelings, i required answers as i merely wanted to know if contemporary silat places importance on spirituality in anyway and what exactly and where do their allegiances lie...if more than 1 allegiance. btw, im very much into the warrior class who stood for our people...the reason im in South Africa is because our ppl fought too but got ditched here because we were too much to handle in prisons in JayaKarta...the movie Fatahillah gave me alot of insight and it was heartening to know that the struggle was fought on all grounds in Nusantara.

    To Narrue, u ask whether the ilmu batin school subscribers forego good and hard physical training...let me tell you that our school does place importance on ilmu batin...but you never hear or smell about it unless you've demonstrated your patience in the usual drills and your development in these is important to our Cikgu too so you cant escape these...our ilmu batin comes from Sufi lines and there is no option for you to use it in daily circumstances...besides those that would offer you extra defense and less-hurt in a danger situation...however...our school places importance on facing your opponents...not standing on some porch and acting macho...through ilmu...

    so those schools who use ilmu without silat i dont know if they are called silat in the first place...

    but once again, our Cikgu never even tells you about the kebatinan if havent shown progress in your beladiri...

    i cant see those clips from my work desk but ill get to the work internet cafe space and view from there
  18. Kertas

    Kertas Valued Member

    Hormat all again.. Just off the hook. Seeing that Mas Radin Rahmat mentioned the movie Fatahillah, does anyone here know about it, seen it or have it? It was screened in cape town at the Indonesian film festival few years back,but since then,not even the indon consulate could find the movie for us. Was that a display of the ilmu hapus? I just like to say that most silat people i came across does not easily have open discussion about the ilmu or kerohanian of their system. If you ask them,they might say its old peoples tales and doesnt exist. Let me tell you that black magic exists in almost every nation. The African people here in south africa use black magic to exploit innocent people and they get away with millions of dollars without a trace. So people shying away from facts while knowing them,could create more harm by not making those around you aware. Lets just be honest and say there is bad ilmu in many silat. And there is a counter to it as well.
  19. tauhid_87

    tauhid_87 Valued Member

    Assalamulaikum brothers in silat ..... I agree with you master kertas, they are many people who exploit silat just to make money but their people out there teaching silat for free with ilmu batin . . . I always believe that in order to reach that stages of silat you have the right attitude and discipline to achieve or be given the power of ilmu batin in silat. You must be worthy of it. . . :cool:
  20. Raden-Rahmat

    Raden-Rahmat Valued Member

    anyone know Fatahillah

    salam alaykum sure Mas Walang Kadung knows about this or even Nadzrin...judging from the indepth knowledge displayed thus far

    about the fight to free Sunda Kelapa and Batavia was declared Jayakarta (now jakarta)...

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