Your description of Peng?

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by cheesypeas, Aug 27, 2008.

  1. cheesypeas

    cheesypeas Moved on

    This has reared it's ugly head again recently..

    So I wondered what the enlightened IMA Mappers definition of Peng is.

    What is it?

    How would you expain/define it?

  2. old palden

    old palden Valued Member

    Who is this enlightened IMA Mapper you speak of?
  3. apprentice

    apprentice Valued Member

    Since this thread got posted I've been watching anxiously for a response. I have no idea what Peng is in this context and can't find anything on it. Carys, could you please explain the concept a little? I realize there must be eithier some controversy or vagueness to it, based on the tone of the thread, so I understand if the answer can't be very 'encyclopedia'. But just a rough overview of what Peng is please?
  4. old palden

    old palden Valued Member

    Peng is one of the four main energies of tai chi chuan. Essentially, it is upward moving and expanding, and is exemplified in the posture most styles call ward off.
  5. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    "Be sung! Use p'eng!"

    The master said.

    "And thou canst bounce

    thine opponent's head!"
  6. apprentice

    apprentice Valued Member

    OK, so in my form, when I go from catch the birds tail to ward off left the movement, and more specifically the energy I used to make the movement happen IF IF IF I was doing the form correctly, would be Peng?

    Wow. I feel a little guilty. This sounds like the kind of thing my teacher hasn't taught me yet on purpose. I'm a very curious student and I have to be cuatious not to get ahead....But tantalize me a little more, what are the other three energies?

    And are all of these energies within qi collectively? Or is that its own seperate energy?
  7. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Apprentice,you should pick up some reading material.With translations of the classics and commentary,and various other writings old and new.

    P'eng left and right in the beginning of the form=ward off L/R.The movement,or rather how it's done,culminates in/creates the energetic expression,which is basically what oldpal wrote.

    The term p'eng is used in two main ways in TC-as the basic energetic/postural state from which all other TC energies derive,and-

    the individual energetic expression of p'eng, as exercised in the postural technique of "ward off".Remember-the posture is used to train p'eng,usage of p'eng is not dependent on usage of the posture.

    Really,read a translation or three of the various classic writings.They're not hard to find.They will familiarize you with terms,and speak of theory and method. While some of them are meaningless unless you already understand what's really being said,accompanying commentaries can help somewhat.Sometimes.Maybe.
  8. apprentice

    apprentice Valued Member

    Ten steps ahead of you. I have started with the Tao Teh Ching. But I'm not going to jump ahead of myself. I'm taking it very slowly. Focusing on one verse a day from three different translations. Then I'll move on.
  9. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    Oo, good topic...

    I'm coming to the opinion the Peng is the wrong word to describe this Jin, and the correct word would be "Bing".
    Below is an extract from Alex Kozma's new book, "Ziranmen and the Taoist Fighting Arts". The quote is from Master Chen Yuen San of Taiwan:

  10. Fire-quan

    Fire-quan Banned Banned

    Somehow the phrase "bing pong" springs to mind. Carry on...
  11. old palden

    old palden Valued Member

    The Tao Te Ching doesn't contain specific technical information about tai chi chuan.
    Try reading any (or all) of these--
    The Power of the Internal Martial Arts by Bruce Frantzis
    Tai Chi: Health for Life by Bruce Frantzis
    The Tao of Tai Chi Chuan by Jou Tsung Hwa
    The Tai Chi Classics by Waysun Liao

    and/or watch Bruce Frantzis's video of Yang Style Fighting Applications

    In essence the other three main energies are Ahn: downward moving energy or power
    Ji: energy that presses or projects in a forward direction
    Lu: (roll back) absorbing or yielding energy.

    "And are all of these energies within qi collectively? Or is that its own seperate energy?"

    These terms (peng, lu, ahn, ji) are merely words to describe different manifestations or expressions of chi (energy) and yi (intention).
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2008
  12. cheesypeas

    cheesypeas Moved on

    Thank you BT...this shows the enigma of this thread. I have yet to meet anyone who can describe what peng is. Your post brings into the discussion the dissent with the name itself.

    Peng is named other ways....and as for the description...:rolleyes:

    *mutter, mutter* ancient Chinese masters/word of mouth/songs and poems/wonky all ends up as

    Chinese whispers!!!!!!!!!!:hat::bang:
  13. old palden

    old palden Valued Member

  14. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    T'seng,Chu-p'ai,YCF's last disciple,translates it into English as "bump".He's speaking of the applied p'eng,as in Ward Off posture.

    A most basic description of the above p'eng ---the applied directional force produced as a result of opening your upper body and closing the lower body.

    apprentice-I meant the TC Classics.
  15. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    I think the ancient Chinese meant "Ping" which is part of the TCP/IP toolset to [SIZE=-1]verify that you can reach another network node from your PC/local host,[/SIZE] and is an acronym for "Packet Internet (or Inter-Network) Groper".
    The local-host is part of a Judeo-Christian mantra i.e. the Father, the Son & the Local-Host and probably referred to a banqueting tradition, of which the most famous is The Last Slipper,where the Local-Host slipped a guy named Judas 30 sheckels of silver and a Carrot ... don't know what the significance of the carrot is ... but obviously meant something cause Judas had his name changed by dead poll to Judas And His Carrot ... weird?
    Anyway this has been mistakenly mythologized by Hollywood in the story of Cinderella & the Glass Slipper ... Last & Glass sound so similar and can easily get mixed up in the translation :rolleyes: ... or was it the seven dwarves? Now I'm getting confused (origin of word Confuscious ... any state resembling the habitual state of the great sage is now known as CONFUSION ...), anyway, that should clear up any questions about Ping Peng Pong ... oh, and Pong is just a Ping with a few fish-heads thrown in for good measure :D.

    All clear? Good.:hat:

    Ohm-Mane-Pappadums ... (ancient buddhist mantra)
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2008
  16. old palden

    old palden Valued Member

    And the enlightened IMA mapper has revealed himself.
  17. wujidragon

    wujidragon Valued Member

    how about just moving away from the definitions and do an experiment. Do ward off and at the end of the posture, just before it changes say the word P'eng with feeling or better yet start the motion and the word at the same tome and end the word at the end of the motion. With an use any part of the form that has a down motion try this also with ahn. Then again with lu while doing the rollback motion. This might spread light on the issue. Play with it a bit .... the sound of the word combined with the movement might assist understanding. Maybe not, but you'll have fun anyhow and you'll be practicing.... :)
  18. wujidragon

    wujidragon Valued Member

    dang should have spell checked.. corrected now i think.
  19. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    Who ... me? Heh, only when I suck a battery.:evil:
  20. unfetteredmind

    unfetteredmind Valued Member

    I'm not sure I like this definition. I think of its quality as like a boat on water - a kind of buoyancy - or maybe the force generated in a beach ball when you compress it. Though to be honest I think there is only one kind of energy in Taiji but it can be applied differently. What happens in the body and mind seems to me to be the same but with different effects, depending on the nature of the forces acting on us.

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