Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do Resources' started by ronmeister, May 12, 2003.



  1. WTF < ITF

  2. ITF < WTF

Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    AHA! Your bad [T][K][D]! :D

    Oh no! My bad again! Doh :eek:

    Confused Mitch. :D

    I thought the WTF rules stipulate something like 'the punch must impact sufficiently hard to move the opponent' in order to score? No doubt Neryo or similar can paste a link to the relevant website soon.
  2. MadMonk108

    MadMonk108 JKD/Kali Instructor

    Both of you are right.

    You can score with punches, but with the hogu, it is virtually impossible to. Thus, punches merely end up being a tool for controlling distance and setting up kicks.

    I've always said that the game of WTF sparring would change drastically if the hogu was done away with.
  3. Liam Cullen

    Liam Cullen Valued Member

    I'd like to get rid of the chest protection too, but before people did get seriously hurtso I can see why they were introduced. Then again they didn't used to have the weight classes either.

    As for head punches in WTF, I think you'll going to have to dream about it for a while longer...... sadly.

    Is that the general rule of sparring in your club, or just for the lower belts?
  4. ryanTKD

    ryanTKD New Member

    Yes, it would hurt alot.
  5. MadMonk108

    MadMonk108 JKD/Kali Instructor

    That's a cop out though.

    Muay Thai doesn't use them.

    Kyokushin doesn't use them.

    The game could only improve.
  6. Tittan

    Tittan Valued Member

    ITF doesn't use them, and we even use similar techniques... :rolleyes:
  7. 29622

    29622 New Member

    I honestly don't know what the big deal about punches are. I mean, kicking is so much more interesting to watch than punching. Punching is relatively easy compared to kicking, and I would rather see a quick roundhouse or jumping back-kick than a punch anyday.

    The hogu is fine, when up at the Olympic level even a kick through a hogu can seriously injure you. If there is no hogu, then there will be some serious problems.

    I have had first hand experience with this when my master, who is an Olympic Gold Medalist, bruised my arm for two weeks with a roundhouse kick through a 1 ft pad. No pad, I'd probably be in the hospital. When at a world class level, the kicks are extremely dangerous and deadly, and without the hogu there will be a lot more serious injuries/deaths.

    It's a sport, not a fight. TKD is a sport that is 60% strategy and 40% physical. You are always trying to find a way to score without being tagged, which combos to do in each situation, how to fake our your opponent, etc. It's fine the way it is.

    Although making it a bit faster paced would be interesting, it is fine as it is.
  8. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Your TKD is a sport, not mine. I'll continue drilling a full range of effective strikes thanks very much.

    It all depends on what you want out of your training I suppose, and I don't mean the previous paragraph to be disrespectful, but the TKD I do is just a basic striking art with few frills.

  9. Tittan

    Tittan Valued Member

    I second that! I'm in this game to learn to defend myself...
  10. Cheshire Cat

    Cheshire Cat New Member

    Thanks for all the replies. I now understand it all. And yes i was taught in ITF not to punch the head anyway. For some reason though we practised sparring more in my ITF club than we do now in WTF. I think they might have a separate sparring class, i'll have to check that. :)
  11. 29622

    29622 New Member

    Well I mean the sparring aspect of it. In all WTF schools every type of technique should be learned and practiced. But the sparring aspect, the sport aspect, is fine the way it is. The sport aspect is what I was talking about, not the art/self defense part.
  12. kwang gae

    kwang gae 광개 Sidekick Specialist

    The WTF-style sparring not scoring punches, really comes down to poorly trained officials, IMNSHO. Punches that have significant impact should be scored, even in WTF. So sayeth the rule book.

    I'm an official, and I've seen punches that literally knocked the opponent to the ground that 2 of the four corner judges didn't score as a point! :bang: Insanity! Consequently schools train their athletes away from punching and toward kicking, since they'll get scored for a kick, and blanked for a punch.
  13. 29622

    29622 New Member

    That depends on the school. I can't speak for all, but the school I attend as well as the school my friend attends both practice hand techniques to a sufficient degree. Many schools probably don't work hand techniques as much because kicks are simply much harder to do. By human instinct punching is one of the most basic of attacks.

    Think about what was harder as a white belt: Kicking or punching. That is probably why they are drilled so much more.
  14. EternalRage

    EternalRage Valued Member

    Kicking is more interesting to watch, yeah, but I don't think punches are necessarily any easier. There is an incredible amount of physics and body mechanics to punching, anyone who states that its easier than kicking needs to join a boxing gym and get their technique ripped apart. Combinations and timing is just as important and difficult, as well as transitioning to the clinch or throws.

    I disagree. Like Mad Monk said, there are plenty of kicking oriented systems out there that do full contact without a hogu, and they are fine. Like he stated, it will better the game, at the very least increasing the practice of proper defense as well as body condititioning.

    It can still be an exciting sport with the punches and no hogu, in fact by adding another dimension to the game by allowing punches to the head, it will make it more exciting, as combos don't necessarily stop when two competitors get too close and just hug each other like they do now. Strategy will be just as important, but will be expanded to include a shorter combat range.
  15. 29622

    29622 New Member

    No doubt is punching difficult, but I disagree that it is moreso than kicking. Kicking, too, has an incredible amount of physics and body mechanics as well. Difference with punching and kicking is that kicking is a very unnatrual movement.

    Again, why do away with the hogu? It's not the hogu's fault there aren't enough punches, its the practitioners and the referees. Most people just don't like being knocked into a coma, which is why there aren't as many Muy Thai practitioners as there are TKD. I can respect that they have no form of armor, but there is really no need to do away with the hogu.
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2006
  16. [T][K][D]

    [T][K][D] Valued Member

    First off..apologies to Mitch...i didnt know you got extra points for flashy kicks...its just that in my tournament i only used back kicks, axe kicks, and mainly turning kick/combo. With punching in WTF, to score a point, it needs to make a sound and push the opponent back; hence not many people punch in WTF. I rekon they should reintroduce no body pads and gloves into WTF. Difference with ITF being no punches to the head.
  17. 29622

    29622 New Member

    Then why not take ITF. WTF is fine the way it is. Its a matter of preference, there's no need to change WTF to ITF. If you like ITF better, then do ITF. There are plenty of people who prefer either.
  18. Liam Cullen

    Liam Cullen Valued Member

    If you want to do WTF style sparring without the body armour there are competitions you can enter already. Events like the Kick Of Kicks tournament even has Olympic fighters in.
  19. Cheshire Cat

    Cheshire Cat New Member

    I agree with not using the whole protective gear. It's uncomfortable and annoying. When i was in ITF and sparred in training we only used gloves and leg protectors, and then at grading we used the chest guard so i'm used to not sparring with it all. I think it's better too because that way you have to learn how to defend yourself better. Unlike my WTF training tonight where they wear everything, which i don't have yet so i had to sit out on sparring which i was really annoyed about. I could have easily done without. It should be like a real fight, defend yourself or get hurt.
  20. EternalRage

    EternalRage Valued Member

    So is proper punching. Most laymen resort to the haymaker, just like they would a sloppy front kick. You might be talking about yourself personally, when you state that kicking is tougher than punching. But just looking at the two combat ranges without inserting the practitioner and their limitations, both seem to be at least on equal footing in terms of difficulty.

    I wasn't saying getting rid of hogu would increase the punching. Punching to the head and taking away the hogu are two different suggestions for changes to the rules. Like I said before, it would help increase the importance of defense as well as body conditioning. It would get rid of the "skip kicking" where two people just take the kicks lazily and just try to throw in more than their opponent.

    Besides, don't you find hogus bulky and annoying to wear?

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