Discussion in 'Women's Self Defence' started by hedgehogey, May 23, 2004.
Hey, what about me? I want to know the secret handshake! Geez.... now I feel left out.
Im sorry! I totally forgot.... *goes through handshake with wrydolphin*
Mrs Owt will want in as well...
Of course...... *prepares pamphlets*
Listen this is a serious issue.
Let's put the silliness behind us here for a bit can we?
How successful a woman is at winning a fight or defending herself from a man depends on her own sense of self worth.
So females .... close your ears and don't listen to guys telling you that you can't!
The victor in any fight is predetermined even before physical force is applied....
Women you all need to work on skills to protect your mind and integrity ... unfortunately not many instructors out their teach their female students from the inside out ... its about time they do!
I agree most of the sentiments except "The victor in any fight is predetermined even before physical force is applied...." - this is patently untrue. Fortune favours the brave etc, but there are many external factors that prohibit determinism.
I agree with the "defending yourself" bit too, and I'm not touching the rest!
"Predetermined" meaning in that if a woman believes in her mind that she cannot "win the fight" chances are she may not.... that goes without saying for males too .
Fighting is just as much mental as physical .... or is that another 'sentiment' you don't agree on?
Mental and physical aren't really apples to apples, so I don't think a comparison is possibe. Is 10% more determined better than 10% stronger?.. we're into metaphysical ambiguity that whilst mentally stimulating,is unactionable. My point was that if it was predetermined, A would always beat B - and we all know luck, environment etc can play a part - I think my "fortune favours the brave" is on the same lines as "If a woman believes in her mind that she cannot "win the fight" chances are she may not"..
Bravo! If you go into any of lifes challenges with a defeatist attitude and the belief you are going to fail, guess what? You probably will. This isn't a male/female phenomenon either. It is a basic self-respect and belief in yourself issue.
I am a short,pudgy woman. I train in arts where I am usually the only female in the class. I cannot afford the luxury of self-pity or I will get squished. We did an exercise where,while standing, someone had to jump up and wrap their legs around your waist. Easy enough with comparable sizes - for me no one of comparable size. Did I back out? No, I learned how to do it with guys as thick as tree trunks, and they did it back to me. In a competition or a real fight I can't say, "sorry, you don't fit my physical requirements - go away". I also can't say when someone is mugging me "I am just a girl - go pick on someone else".
Time to face the fact that because we are women, not in spite of it, we should be studying martial arts.
The more knowledge, skill and practice we have will be the things that can level the playing field for us. So watch out, women have strengths and advantages and when they learn to fully exploit them I think alot of these arguments will not be so black and white.
Hahahhahahhahah ... hey, I actually laughed out loud at work ... coulda gotten in trouble or something.
But yes, there is a "girlie way" of doing things. And concerning the argument about women not being athletic because they're told they're not supposed to be ... hmm ... I knew tomboys, and these girls moved exactly like boys (until of course a later age when they find it harder to attract males ). I also knew boys that behaved like girls... I mean really, they had the "girle way" about them. For these reasons, I don't believe that most women are non - athletic because they were told so.
KC (the accomplished and respected KC), while I agree that confidence has a lot to do with winning a fight, I'd rather be a capable fighter doubtful of my abilities than a confident mutt who couldn't punch his way out of a paper bag.
Ohh ... and so y'all know, my mom never took martial arts, but she was a great fighter back in school, serioulsy, I heard stories about her . She was just one of those girls that could fight, naturally. Of course, these girls are very few, very rare .. this is my point. Most girlies can't fight as well as most boys.
But even though I know that there are some women who are great fighters, I may not take a sparring partner too seriously until she kicks me in the face Anyone want to kick me in the face?
Oh, the venerable Mrs. O, of which strengths and advantages do you speak?
It's not 'Guys', it's 'Some Guys' and a woman may not have to just protect herself against a Man, she may well have to protect herself against another woman.
Pedantic I know, but the term 'Fight' is a misleading one, you are not looking to stand toe to toe with your attacker and Duke it out with them in a contest, in order to prove how good you are at 'fighting'. It's not a sparring match.
Nor are you looking to arrest, detain or restrain your attacker. The situation could potentially be fatal.
You are looking to do as much damage as you can as quickly as possible and sustain as little damage as you can, in order to create a suitable opening in order for you to then Leave, ASAP.
A fight to me, suggests two willing participants. I take it that you the defender are not a willing participant and would much rather be elsewhere, namely at home with your family etc. So train hard and well and you will achieve that goal.
The point I was making is that we are not totally helpless and when we learn to use our abilities we will go a far way in levelling the playing field. I will not argue physiology, kinesiology or biology. I am not qualified to do so. All that I am saying is women can learn to use what they have far more effectively by training as women should train, not necessarily as men should train.
Example, my aikido class. We were doing a variation on ikkyu irimi, I was doing it textbook style which my sensei had taught me. Frankly, it always was never satisfying to me as it seemed a hard way for me to take a larger opponent down. A different sensei who was also very short showed me a variation on the variation which worked incredibly well for short people. I was now highly succesful in taking much larger opponents to the ground while they were resisting. This example was not specifically for women, but how shorter people could adapt the technique. And as women have certain things in common, training with certain differences in mind would probably serve them well.
I would hope with this example you would see my point is that women have to find their advantages and train them. They of course, should always train their weak areas as well, but accepting and acknowledging the differences and limitations is part of the process to training more efficiently for yourself and becoming the best that you can be.
Perhaps this thread should not have appeared in the Womens Self Defense Forum .... it does refer to a woman beating a man in a sparring match?
How about in a self defense scenario? I have seen it.... I have seen a woman beat a man in this particular situation. (Should we continue along this vein or not?? ... I can split off....)
There is a difference in "fighting" a man to defend your "honor" than to just kick the snot out of him.
Sokklab "fight" has many meanings.... in a self defense situation ---->"To act in opposition to anything; to struggle against; to contend; to strive; to make resistance."
And sorry I did not want you all to assume that I mean't ALL guys!
This is spot on, and I've seen statistics to support them (but now can't find them), but it showed the chances of repelling an attack with / without MA training.. and the odds were much better.
Isn't there some great Bruce Lee quote about the spirit and the essence of JKD in respect to a woman being attacked and defending herself..?
Google is failing me..
Yeah, I think girls have been and are being told that they are weak because they are female. For every one depiction of a strong female, there are at least fifty depicting women as weak, as property, and as sex objects. You can't toss one tomboy out at me and tell me that negates all the messages females get during day to day life. Yep, this is a titchy subject for me, being a woman. I don't appreciated being told that I am a little ol' girly girl who isn't worth the effort. What's the next piece of advice? Sit back and try to enjoy it? You'll have to forgive me if I don't buy it.
Yeah, the fight is mental. If you think your weak, then you are. If you think you can't win, you won't fight. If you don't fight, you can be raped and killed or left for dead. I don't consider this a light issue, even when I am making light of what I consider the most stupid arguements I have come across.
Think of it this way, I am guessing that in part, many of us want to get blackbelts, if you haven't already. Are ya'll telling me that if a young woman walked in you'd up and tell her that she was weak and unable to fight a man or defend herself against attack. Would you really possibly take her life and sanity and throw it out like that? Ya'll need to think more about what you say, more importantly, you need to think more about what you would say to someone you cared about if they asked you to help them learn to fight or learn basic self defense.
Forgive the long post. Just irritated about this arguement and how its constantly repeating with more young bucks spouting non-sense.
Let's try and get a consensus that we can all agree to disagree on and move on.
Trained women can defend themselves against assailants
We all agree to disagree on men vs. women sparing capabilities – we all agree that some women can beat some men but each have different ideas of the parameters necessary for this.
Women smell nicer. Men tend to be bigger, women more flexible. No, that doesn’t make you butt look big, sweetheart.
Wry, what in the hell is your point? Am I missing something? I never said women couldn't fight. I just said men IN GENERAL are ON AVERAGE better fighters. I am not trying to tell any woman that she can't fight. I feel that women should train themselves in some form of self defence. I feel that they should fight back when they're attacked. I'm just saying that a woman may have to train harder to reach the level of competence as a man when it comes to fighting. I am not trying to hold women down or anything. I AM NOT THE ENEMY!!
Women are strong, just not as manyy of them as you would like. ..
Scarlet, I dont think she was directing her post right to you. I actually liked this post here. Why couldnt you have said it so nicely before? (except of course you could have left out this part "Women are strong, just not as manyy of them as you would like", just as I start to think you might be ok you just thrown in an unnesessary line that just never sits right with me)
Well I'm not perfect ....
But I'm so close it scares me
For reals, I love women, one love to all my women out there. Unless you need more than one love or some emotional needs catered to or something ... then ...
Separate names with a comma.