Wma Website Links....

Discussion in 'Western Martial Arts' started by Louie, Aug 14, 2005.

  1. Medes

    Medes Valued Member

    Polar Bear,

    Just because you don't study beyond Doebringer ( as you said yourself ) doesn't mean I don't.

    We can argue all day about this, the truth still remains ( like it or not ) that Liechtenauer is considered the father of German swordsmanship!

    One must ask why is this person considered the father of German swordsmanship?

    Tell me Polar Bear, do the Scots have ill feelings against Americans? or perhaps you just are hostile towards me?

    You stated: "Medes, you talk like we don't know all this stuff."

    I say: If all you do is study Doebringer ( which is what you said originally ) than you cannot ' know' anything beyond Doebringer.

    Knowledge= understanding+ experience.

    If you have run a school of German swordsmanship for three years then why do you just study Doebringer? Though I am of the philosophy of Liechtenauer ( as I shall call it, ) I do study more than just Liechtenauer.

    As always I try to communicate in a gentlemanly manner, but it seems that all most people ( with whom I have conversed ) do is fight with me and each other! Is this the kind of site I should expect from MAP?

    Must you insult me? Shall I insult you? I have not yet ( and what I said about being a closet HochMeister Johannes Liechtenauer fan was not an insult. )

    While I appreciate that you sent a link from your school, I cannot take any school seriously that studies only one portion of a science and art and does not at least try to come to a greater knowledge ( again, knowledge= understanding+ experience.)

    It sounds to me like you're a man of great pride and incapable of being taught anything as such ( for a proud person cannot be taught anything as his or her pride would get in the way.)

    If you are not capable of civil conversation then I am not interested.

    As for scholars, I am a scholar of arms and I do know my stuff ( at least in the areas of my study and practice.)

    We both own manuals, we both study and practice, so we could argue and do this ' one-up-manship' all the day long and it would serve no purpose than to show-off in front of other MAPers and gratify our egos. So, as I am a student full-time and work as a TESOL ( Teacher of English to Speakers of Other Languages ) tutor, a fast-food employee, a junior ranked WMA Instructor ( with more than junior knowledge and skill, ) and a landscaper ( sometimes ) with a wife and 5 children to support, I am not all that wealthy and often busy, So, I propose that if you have the means come to see me in the southwestern US where my family and I will treat you with hospitality and kindness as our honored quest and where you and I can spar to our hearts content and settle this matter once and for all.

    If I caused you to feel that you loss face with all I said, I certainly did not intend to do so, and I apologize. Still, I stand my ground on the issue at hand.

    Respectfully, I await your response.
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2011
  2. Stolenbjorn

    Stolenbjorn Valued Member

    Medes: read a bit more of Polar Bear's posts throughout map, and you'll see that he have a rather confrontonal style that I personally dislike. But I have grown known to his "style" on map, and can take it.

    You will allso notice that polar bear have a view of most other practioners of WMA that they don't do it properly.

    Don't get yourself wound up by his way of formulating himself, he writes as he fights :hat:
  3. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    Well if we are being historically accurate then there is no such thing as German swordsmanship especially at the period of Johannes Liechtenauer. The term German swordsmanship is a modern invention therefore Liechtenauer being the grandfather is an anachronism.

    I didn't say I didn't know the others, I said I only use Doebringer in my school.

    If you trace through the later manuals you see the art is less effective and bloated. Everything you need for effective swordsmanship is in Doebringer.

    If you make a claim you need to back that up here and no it's not SFI where pretentous airbags are encouraged.

    I didn't insult you I made a statement about the state of HEMA in the US.

    Garbage in, Garbage out. More does not always equal better.

    I learned martial arts at the feet of men who were some of the best of their generation. I've seen where "lets all respect each others opinions" leads, if you have a claim to make then prove it, otherwise best you stay in the shallow end.

    Yeah, yeah, easy to issue a challenge that can never be satisfied. That is the true exercise of ego. Also it is a violation of MAP terms and conditions. Please note that for the future.

    If you want to be taken seriously here, start with a display of technical knowledge.

    The Bear.
  4. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    It's you nordics are getting soft in your old age. Should never have given up Viking :D.

    The Bear.
  5. Medes

    Medes Valued Member

    Polar Bear,

    I don't understand how an invitation to spar is against terms and conditions? I said 'spar' not fight! To me a ' fight' is a different matter, but I did not challenge you to fight, so if what I said was against terms and conditions, show me where?

    I just read the terms again.

    You are quilty of violating 4.3, 4.3.1

    I do invite civil conversation.
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2011
  6. Medes

    Medes Valued Member

    Polar Bear,

    Be gentlemanly or don't communicate with me.

  7. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    There is a block list is you don't want to see a user's post. I am not a gentleman nor do I subscribe to the notion.

    The Bear.
  8. Medes

    Medes Valued Member


    Thank you for your thoughts! :)
  9. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    I am from Glasgow, this is civil. Uncivil comes with friends at 2am.

    The Bear.
  10. Medes

    Medes Valued Member

  11. lklawson

    lklawson Valued Member

    Well, you know, except for a quarterstaff being of a greatly different length, weight, size, balance, proportion and lacking cutting edges, a thrusting point, and a cross-guard, yeah, it's exactly the same as a Longsword. :)

    The Quarterstaff is unique from the Longsword and will have different application. Sure there are some principles that can cross over, but there are also some principles of Longsword that cross over to Bowie Knife.

    When you get right down to it, all fighting is about taking a set of unifying principles, finding which ones best apply to a given weapon (including unarmed and/or grappling), and making what modifications in technique and tactics are most appropriate to that weapon.

    To paraphrase the quote: Before I studied the art, a Longsword to me was just like a Longsword, a Quarterstaff just like a Quarterstaff. After I learned the art, a Longsword was no longer a Longsword, a Quarterstaff no longer a Quarterstaff. Now that I've understood the art, a Longsword is just like a Longsword, a Quarterstaff just like a Quarterstaff.


    Peace favor your sword,
  12. lklawson

    lklawson Valued Member

    This is demonstrably wrong unless by "modern" you mean, "anything starting at or after the 17th Century or so" because "Professors of Defense" teaching boxing and wrestling and other "non sword" type stuff were fairly common, particularly in 19th Century.

    Peace favor your sword,
  13. lklawson

    lklawson Valued Member

    Scots? You mean those folks who wander around in plaid dresses with a frigg'n knife tucked in their sock while guzzling brews with enough alcoholic content to pickle fish?

    They're not hostile, just hung over.

    [ducking Bear's swing at me]

    I gotta take exception with this. You keep writing it, but it's just not so. I know a lot of really knowledgeable people who completely lack understanding. They can quote facts and present information easily yet completely lack the ability to apply that knowledge.

    At best, the phrase should be "understanding = knowledge + experience" but, to be frank, that's such a dramatic oversimplification as to be little more than a soundbite. Understanding is far more complex than that and deserves better than to be a 3 word phrase tossed off as a debate point.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2011
  14. lklawson

    lklawson Valued Member

    Sure you are. Just not by the mid-20th Century & ff definition of "Gentleman." You fit perfectly well with the late 19th through early 20th C. understanding.

    "Gentlemen" weren't above fighting, carousing, or even being a general ****** to every person they met. It was perfectly acceptable for you to carry a stick with a nice heavy metal head for beating people to death who deserved it (such as pick pockets) or a sword-cane for skewering other "Gentlemen" who ****ed you off. Sure there were rules for being a "Gentleman" but it didn't require you to be Gene Autry dressed as Fred Astaire.

    Peace favor your sword,
  15. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    Yeah well, lets just say closer to a gentleman rouge, ;D
    Certainly not a member of the HEMA old boys club or the tights at dawn brigade.

    The Bear.
  16. Fecht

    Fecht New Member

  17. emaaoz

    emaaoz Valued Member

    If I have to put the popcorn away and we're bringing things back on topic I'll drop a link on you.


    It's a project I've been working on for a while. Lots of articles, some just entertaining, some directly drawn from manuals, some modern applications. Several ebooks as well, including a couple of free ones

    There's an email newsletter and I'm about to launch a distance learning course.

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