Wing Chun Punches work like da bomb in kickboxing!

Discussion in 'Kickboxing' started by Domestic_Rat, Aug 9, 2005.

  1. Domestic_Rat

    Domestic_Rat New Member

    I sparred tonight in my club against two of the intermediate guys. At first, I couldn't get any punches in to them and they kept kicking me in the head!

    Then I just started using my wing chun punches, and suddenly they couldn't block my combos! I lkept getting them in their soloplexes and faces, it was awsome!

    To make things cooler, one of the two guys told me I can punch all I want, I won't hit him. At first he seemed right, but when I used wing chun punches I got him alot.

    The technique I found that worked the best where your three basic punches in yung-chun. The combo of: up, middle, down, up, middle, down etc. straights.

    Watta you guys think?
  2. Luke Bong

    Luke Bong New Member

    Hi Domestic_Rat!

    I am a big fan of Wing Chun Kung Fu myself and the only reason I am not learning it now is there is no one here who is teaching it :bang:

    Well, from the way you describe the combo, it sounds mightly lot like a combo in a Street Fighter or Tekken game :D Just kidding.

    But I think you are right. I am a firm believer that fundamentals are always very important. If one truly mastered the basic in punching or kicking, s/he can take down an opponent. Just because someone has been doing MA longer and has a more 'colourful belt' doesn't mean one is better. It boils down to mastery at the end of the day.

    That's just what I believe in only, though,

    Soo Bahk!
  3. Topher

    Topher allo!

    I have to say that the speed of Wing Chun really help to catch people off guard. A guy at my Tang Soo Do class who also trained in Wing Chun sometimes threw in a little WC techniques during training and even though i do WC too, i still couldn't react quick enough.
  4. LiaoRouxin

    LiaoRouxin Valued Member

    Having trained in Wing Chun in a dedicated fashion for several years but also competing in Muay Thai I have some reservations about the overall effectiveness of Wing Chun punches.

    1) Power generation: because the power in Wing Chun punches is entirely hip and arm-shoulder dependent it doesnt hit nearly as hard as say a cross. This can be rectified, at least to an extent, by using the power generation of a boxing punch, starting at the feet moving up, instead of just the hip motion that seems to be almost universally taught. Using the foot turn, though, you really can't use the favorite Wing Chun technique of rolling punches (though I don't like that technique anyway)

    2) Unprotected head: The forward arm positioning in Wing Chun unfortunately leaves the head open to attack. So while it may feel nice to have the advantage of your arms being closer and allowing you to snap off punches quicker, you are making sacrifices for that in both power and protection.

    3) I've always had a problem with the linear nature of Wing Chun's punches. Almost all of them start and end on the centerline, and although what height the delivery and impact is at varies, it's not altogether hard for people of experience to see it coming and react according. The advantage of boxing punches, as I see it, is that you're afforded many directions of attack without overly exposing yourself either. A decent boxer can throw hooks without making themselves walking billboards saying "smack me upside the head" and they've got more variety of punches to use, so I think it's harder to defend.

    Wing Chun punches can be useful, and to an extent I use the straight punch still (though in the modified boxing form I touched on earlier) because, like a bolo punch, it's unexpected. Also, Wing Chun gave me the mindset to throw a punch from whatever position I'm in, so sometimes I can throw a very close punch that most Thai boxers wouldn't throw, and use it to set up another attack. For instance, if I brought my left arm perpendicular to my waist and not too far from my opponent's side, instead of retracting it to my face like I would normally do, Wing Chun taught me to look at the option of throwing that as a weak punch, then perhaps my opponent is off-balanced and I can follow with an elbow, or make them eat a knee, or another kick or something along those lines.

    The important thing for you to do now is to analyze what you learned in Wing Chun and what you're learning now and try your best to mesh it all together in a way that works for you. Maybe for you the straight punch works a lot, so you'll use it a lot. Maybe it doesn't so you'll have to learn to box better, just try and see how things go. Mix and match is the key here
  5. Domestic_Rat

    Domestic_Rat New Member

    Yes, I was thinking the same thing last night. If I could, I would take Wing-chun AND kickboxing classes. But Sadly, they are on the same nights and even the same time. :bang: So all I'm doing now is kickboxing.

    Although my wing chun instructor once said that if we want private classes we should just ask. So I'm gonna ask him.

    Ps - Sorry for the crappy way I described the combo, I just don't know how else to say it. :eek:
  6. Bil Gee

    Bil Gee Thug

    What complete rubbish.
    Most of what you say really doesn't ring true but in particular, there is a lot of emphasis on guarding the head in Wing Chun it is a really basic part of the art.
  7. Domestic_Rat

    Domestic_Rat New Member

    I'll be honest, If your not fast, you tend to pick up alot of punches to the face in yung-chun, since your hand is so far away from your face. Though I never saw my trainer pick up a punch in the face, so I think with a little practice you can get rid of that problem.
  8. EternalRage

    EternalRage Valued Member

    I would ask that you respect Liao's opinions, having trained in both arts he has legitamate viewpoints and is entitled to express them, and we can all learn something from it.

    Bil Gee, I've been meaning to ask you this for some time. Why is it that when anyone has anything critical to say about Wing Chun, you go on the defensive with guns blazing? Is it because WC takes alot of flaming too and you're just sick of hearing it all? I mean, Liao's post wasn't even flaming, it was very constructive and literate...
  9. Anonymouse

    Anonymouse Guitar wielding maniac

    In WC, you shouldnt be in a position to take a hit to the face if you are going to punch like that. You should be using lateral movement and angles to slip the punch before you strike out with a straight punch. Besides that, you should use the hand that is not punching, to guard your face and/or trap your opponents arm. Having trained in both WC and MT, I use my shoulder to guard my chin as well during a wing chun punch. One thing that is also good about a wing chun punch is that it guards your body while punching, not like a cross which leaves your ribs totally exposed. I train both styles of punching, both are useful in different circumstances.
  10. LiaoRouxin

    LiaoRouxin Valued Member

    Pardon me for being completely unknowledgable about "teh troo Wing Chun", but please enlighten me as to how the head is very well protecting in Wing Chun punching as opposed to boxing. Yes, there's protection for the head, but is it as effective as boxing's? I don't believe so, because it's a lot less tight than in boxing, there's a lot more room for error. In the academy I attended in Wan Chai we had a San Shou trainer as well, with some very good kickboxers and of course they all trained in Wing Chun as well, but not a one of them used Wing Chun defense in San Shou with any regularity.

    Anonymouse brings up a good point, which is also something I do when I use the straight punch: tucking the chin. It's not, I do not think, as easy as it is in boxing, but it offers a substantial increase in protection for the chin and jaw. As I was taught one version of the straight punch, the opposite hand is raised over the upper-elbow/bicep area to block incoming shots. With the chin duck, though, that arm can now be used for other things: such as defending the other side of the head.
  11. Developing

    Developing Valued Member

    When I have boxed and been in the clinch I have found that I have had some success in firing some a quick chain of wing chung punches to the body of my opponent (usually no more than 3 or 4) and then immediately stepping to the left or right depending on which stance I'm using and then following with a hook to the head. This combination has worked for me from time to time but as with anything if it's done more than twice a good opponent will learn some way to counter it.

    I agree with Anonymouse and LiaoRouxin when sparring in Jui Jitsu I have attempted to trap my opponents arm and go into a lock after using the chung strikes. I have also found that using the punches do make me feel as if my head is too exposed which is why I use them in quick combinations and stepping into or off of angles, never a direct straight forward attack. I know wing chung practitioners who do fight that way but that is not comfortable for me.

    I also think there are probably many more ways to merge wing chung with boxing/kickboxing than I have described, I experiment with this quite often and am always searching for new ways to pull this off.
  12. Anonymouse

    Anonymouse Guitar wielding maniac

    "With the chin duck, though, that arm can now be used for other things: such as defending the other side of the head."

    Yup. Also, alot of the time in wing chun, when someone throws a straight punch (either jab or cross) you try to slip the punch and give them a straight punch to the side of the head. Now youve set your self up for a cross from their other arm since your in the right spot now. So, your going to want that other arm on that side. For example, you are squared off and your opponent throws a left, you slip and step to your right and throw a wing chun straight right punch to his temple/eye area. Now where is your other arm? You could try to grab his attacking arm if you are quick, but what if he's quicker? Youll want that other arm protecting your face from his 2nd punch thats already coming around.
  13. Unisonus

    Unisonus Bloody Rare, Please

    How can something false be legitimate? Moreover, Bil Gee was not defending WC - he was correcting Liao's false account of WC technique.


    WC punches are not "entirely hip and arm-shoulder dependent." In fact, most of the power comes from the footwork.
  14. EternalRage

    EternalRage Valued Member

    If that's the way Liao was taught, then that's the way he was taught. If Bil Gee learned something different then great. But I don't see the merit in calling someone else's experiences "rubbish" then giving little explanation as to why he would disagree.

    There's more than one method of Wing Chun. That by now should be accepted. Different people learned different interpretations, and by saying someone else is blatantly wrong, that implies that you have "the real wing chun" which lets not go there. for once.
  15. Unisonus

    Unisonus Bloody Rare, Please

    I did not see a statement about his method... I saw a general statement about WC - one that happens to be false if you observe the way most schools teach WC.
  16. LiaoRouxin

    LiaoRouxin Valued Member

    Well, first, I am not a "him" and second my assertions were based on experiences accrued at a variety of Wing Chun places in Hong Kong.

    Let me clarify: the way I have seen Wing Chun punches thrown for the better part of my training has been with a planted foot (in conjuction with an angled step). Compared with the generation of punches in boxing, starting at the foot movement, it's more limited in terms of projection.
  17. Anonymouse

    Anonymouse Guitar wielding maniac

    Punches in WC are thrown that way in the beginning, but I think most schools will add better footwork as the students progress. Having already studied a little boxing when I got into WC, I already knew the importance of stepping into a punch and momentum and the like. When I started, I used my footwork to strengthen my blows, especially the backhand (which doesnt have a lot of power to begin with).
  18. Bil Gee

    Bil Gee Thug

    I have little respect for Liao's opinions, as she consistently makes wildley inaccurate statements regarding wing Chun, and the experience that she claims is inconsistent.

    DOB: November 7, 1987 (17 years old)
    20-Mar-2005, 08:24 AM
    I compete in Muay Thai in Malaysia sometimes
    24-Mar-2005, 03:06 AM
    I am a martial arts instructor of two CMAs
    08-May-2005, 08:43 PM
    Depends on the Systema instructor, actually. I've met two, my own (though I mostly learn Sambo from him) and another who was visiting him from Moscow.
    16-May-2005, 12:49 AM
    I began Eagle Claw when I was four, Muay Thai when I was eight. I started taking Wing Chun two hours a day, 6 days a week when I moved to Alaska three years ago.
    I started my life training Eagle Claw, I expanded into Muay Thai and later Wing Chun, I am certified to teach Eagle's Claw and Wing Chun. I have a second kyu in Judo,
    02-Jun-2005, 05:32 AM
    The karate fighters with the best attitudes are kyokushin guys. It doesn't hurt I did Kyokushin for about 2 months :p
    23-Jun-2005, 12:55 AM
    Juji Gatame, the classic armlock. It's my Judo dojo nickname,
    21-Jun-2005, 12:35 AM
    Let's see:
    Muay Thai: from age 7 to the present
    Yingzhuaquan: Age 4 on, mostly dropped now but I still practice the one and two person forms and the locks
    Wing Chun: Age 13-17
    Kyokushin: about 2 months :p Dropped
    Sambo: Roughly 1 year, currently dropped
    In Hong Kong I went to Au Yeun's Wing Chun academy in Wan Chai.

    Martial Arts Style:
    Eagle Claw, Wing Chun, Knife, Systema, SAMBO, Kyokushin, Judo, Muay Thai
    Systema: 5 months, currently dropped
    Judo: About a year and a quarter, running concurrently with Sambo
    Demonstration Wushu: Skills developed since I started Yingzhua, but I learned the standardized forms in the past three years. I'm currently the student-instructor at my high school's wushu class.
    I have slight experience in other martial arts, mostly Chinese, through my travels in China.

    05-Jul-2005, 03:09 AM
    My brother began teaching me Muay Thai when I was seven (though he showed me the kicking then he didn't focus on teaching kicking or throwing to me until I was 13 when I begged him to. Until then it was boxing, elbows, and some clinch work), it was my second martial art. I spent about a decade on Eagle Claw under instruction (granted, when I started I could just walk. I was 3 or 4), Wing Chun technically started the year before I moved to Alaska, got very very intense in Alaska, and then I finished my formal study of it with five months of five or more hours a day in Hong Kong. Judo is a rather new, stemming from about a year of Sambo. I did the two concurrently for a while, being a Sambo person who competed in Judo sometimes but I decided to focus on Judo and dropped the Sambo.
    My current martial arts are Muay Thai, Judo, and demonstration Wushu which I arrived at by virtue of liking to fight in competitions. However, I train more than Muay Thai and Judo: many of the qinna of Eagle Claw (a lot of other elements of Eagle Claw actually appear in demonstration wushu, though not wholecloth) I practice regularly, chisao from Wing Chun, and as a tribute to my two months of kyokushin I thorw the occasional axe kick :-D

    14-May-2005, 05:11 AM
    I study Sambo and I compete in Judo tournaments (going for second kyu, baby!) and I know the Eagle's Claw's 108 qinna, as well as some modifications I made on it myself (less formalized modifcations, more what I can reach at a given moment), and I learned clinching from Thai boxing. I'd say my grappling is only marginally weaker than my striking

    I simply don't accept the expertise that she lays claim to, and considering that one of her first posts was about her inability to land blows on friends who are at first or second grade in their respective arts, this seems justified. I've highlighted just one of the contradictions, there are many.
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2005
  19. Slindsay

    Slindsay All violence is necessary

    You know what really helps in this sort of thread: Reasoning.

    I mean, watch this:

    WTF TKD competition teaches you to guard the face very well, much better than boxing.

    WTF TKD competition fighters tend not to have a high gurad sop leave the face unprotected.

    See, now one of those facts I can back up, the other I can't, but if I dont actually provide the backup one statement is as meaningless as the other, at least liao states the reason the head is unprotected is BECAUSE of something.
  20. Bil Gee

    Bil Gee Thug

    It doesn't need any more justification than the simple fact that Wing Chun is all about guarding the head. Liao as a qualified Wing Chun instructor (roflmao) should really have picked up that basic principal.

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