I saw something interesting in the Kung Fu forum and wanted an opinion from this section. The claim basically is that Allen Orr is able to have his students use Wing Chun in the ring. Here's an interesting bit from an interview with him... Here's also a MMA fight with one of his students... [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epCbRTofOHw&feature=related"]Alan Orr student Aaron in Pro MMA fight - YouTube[/ame] What do you guys think...is there validity to his method? O and Here's the full interview: http://www.alanorr.com/htdocs/articles/sifuinterview2.html
I can't really decide what to make of this group myself. I'm an advocate of what they are doing. They are crosstraining and pressure testing themselves and allowing this experience to change the nature of their art (or at least that was the process which led them to this point). Having said that though in light of this can they really be held forth as an example of functional wing chun? Has the metamorphosis rendered it too different to bear comparason? Looking at the fights it doesn't look like any wing chun I've seen or practiced. From reading the interview this appears to be a common criticism which Alan Orr doesn't think holds water, but then by his own admission his art and training is vastly different from other _ing _un too. I'd like to see footage of them training standup. Not too sure I agree with the comments about the structure allowing harder punching than boxing within an MMA context. Hard to say. Looks not much like _ing _un to me. Not sure if it's got any benefits over boxing or thai as a standup componant to MMA. I'm not convinced that this can be used as a validation of _ing _un at all but what they're doing with their training is a really good thing though so more power to them.
I've always held the stance that were WC principles applied under pressure succesfully it would probably look miles different from what it normally looks like in the class-room. I think if Alan Orr follows through with what he is doing, this could lead to some good things in the WC community.
I guess something to ponder would be - are the principles in question too broad in nature to be applied to one art or considered the intellectual/theoretical property of a single art? If what you do in a real(tm) fight bears little or no resemblence to what you do in class then what are you practicing? If the physical movements of an art truly embody the arts principles then they shouldn't need changing. If they do then this indicates that the arts techniques are a flawed vehicle for its theories.
Very good points raised. WC I think really if it evolves should be treated as a strategy with some chain punching. Most of the "techniques" in WC you shouldn't see anyway, becuase the techniques are deliberatly abstract in order to demonstrate principles. *DISCLAIMER* This is what I was told, when I was training with WC people, which I am not doing so at the moment so I cannot speak for "the rest" of the WC world. */DISCLAIMER*
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPxklnLPeRM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPxklnLPeRM[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btSHLtJd_TY&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btSHLtJd_TY&feature=related[/ame] Some of his students sparring.. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNuq9pH9D7c&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNuq9pH9D7c&feature=related[/ame] Alan seems legit, and his way of explaning how wing chun can be trained to be functional seem to make alot of sense, seems a decent way of training if your a close range pressure fighter.
