Will Tracy's web site on Kenpo

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by BGile, Oct 30, 2006.

  1. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    I am not claiming it, Will is.

    I am just pointing it out that is what is written. Certificate's and stuff don't seem to matter regarding others, Some becoming a 5th in less then 4 years etc.
    Other's becoming a black in 9 months LOL, sure.

    Some have mentioned Chow was a Mormon while the stance in Kara Ho, is he was not??? So where do we go with that one?

    And I am after 40 years still a white belt, LOL because I am not into the BS. LOL... Belts mean nothing to me, Same with my stance on Agnostic. Organized Religion is just another Hook.

    Same with belts and buying it, and not deserving it or getting it awarded, because they really tried but just are not that good, sad to the max.
    I critque BB all the time and point stuff out to them. When asked by others what rank I am, I tell them a learning white, they are in disbelief and say why. I tell them if they are here for the belt go somewhere it is easy to get.LOL

    If my Sensei hears the question he replies, Master. I laugh, and go about training. Bruce wanted to rank me, I said, no thanks. Rank has a string. I'll pass.

    Smedley D. Butler did not want to be given a Medal of Valor for what he did because to him it was not that big of a deal, he was ordered to take it so he did. LOL

    Different strokes for different folks.

    As far as the information you mention, now you are saying he went to Japan but not to a temple. LOL According to a book about Musashi the words at one time were interchangable because the law of the fist really ment a certificate handed to you in the fist= Ken Po. Some write with an m similar to Shao Lin as in Shor in ji, in Kanji and Japan, not Chinese though and then you had Shuri te. When in actality Shao Lin was the goddess of the sea. In the 15th century and earlier. Go figure???

    At the time of Musashi it ment a man who was rightious in life and what he did in his way. Ideograms and Kanji are the answer.
    Then you have to be able to translate it with profeciency.
    Musashi literlly killed several and put one of the Kenpo clan into a monastery after his duel. And the clan all gave up the martail way for some time, but it did continue in the monistary in "secret" :confused:
    It is very famous, I would think you would know about it. But maybe not.

    The world of 2006 is much different than when most of the misinformation came out of Hawaii. By the big players, most were not that sharp, certainly not in Mitose's league, that is for sure.

    John: You constantly amaze me as to how little you like to give out, until the time you think it is necessary, and only then begrudginly. You should run for office. Or be the admin. of a web site.

    When did you switch to allowing Mitose to be in Japan, and not some remote side of one of the Island's, in Hawaii?
    Ted Sumner actually believes Juchnik is teaching, a form of Aiki Jutsu.

    That is true. LOL Kosho very complex. :rolleyes:

    Last edited: Oct 31, 2006
  2. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    Well that certainly cleared up everything :confused: . So much for trying to get a straight answer from you. :bang:
  3. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    I'd call this a garbled answer, but that would be a massive understatement.
  4. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    BTW Gary, what rank did Bruce want to give you exactly?
  5. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    I really wish that you would have kept your answer to that statement above. :bang:
  6. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Dan, I am not sure it depend's on how much money I had laying around to put forth, LOL.

    Regarding my answer, when you give a straight one?
    When that happens mine can be very clear. Been doing this to long with some of these threads. :rolleyes:

    For example if we are going to call Momma san, Mitose-Yoshida no GM then what are we going to call the Sister of Emperado? Who is set to take the helm or already has?

    Lots of good stuff there that will be picked up on the key word and boom! The searchers see quite a bit. LOL But don't tell anyone, it is a secret tech... :D

  7. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Ah so. Now the picture is becoming clear.
  8. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    When in touch with Will he mentioned


    Just a quick reply. Chow was definitely a Mormon, Not a good one, and
    it was Mormons who drove him from the Church.

    I don't see John Bishop's picture in Mitose's book. But I see a lot of


    So John from Will to you. Hope this helps.

    To clarify, If you recall Sam when top GM of Kara Ho said Chow disliked Mormons. Well it did not mean he was not one according to Will.

    Plus you can surmise what he is saying about Oshita, unlike me he is very brief LOL

  9. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    I don't see Will Tracy in Mitose's book either, but I do on some court documents. Methinks he's a bit out of touch with reality.
  10. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    Well what did you expect? Did you think you were going to email Will, and he will was going to tell you that he just made everything up?
    Did you ask him if he still believes his wife is a re-incarnated Egyptian Sex Goddess too?

    Funny, cause Sijo Emperado and several of the early kenpo people of the time knew the woman pictured in the book, and it wasn't Mitose's sister.
    Why don't you ask Bill Chun Jr., or Ralph Castro, or Fred Lara, or Masaiichi Oshiro, or Paul Yamaguichi, or Bobby Lowe if they ever seen or heard of grandmaster Fusae Oshita.
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2006
  11. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    You asked me so I tried to deliver

    I don't care one way or the other. You talk to um. I am simply trying to find out as I have been asked, he certainly is not going to talk to you, and give you the infomation you ask.

    Why should I believe you? Sonny says one thing you say another about John Leoning. Bill Ryusaki say's some thing different, so who do I believe LOL.
    I believe what I believe from 40 years ago it seemed good then.

    So why should I even care? Truth! Kill the messenger mentality is funny.

    So how about Soke-dai and the GOE and Kaju? Are we going to be seeing that, is that really something that is bugging you?

    What does the past of Will and his life got to do with this story, is his story any more unbelieveable then Sijo and his mountain cabin in W VA and writing a book?

    Mills Crenshaw wrote something pretty good and profound, over at SJK.
    But, what is history? Very interesting it is a two way sword, not good for the one reporting nor the one receiving according to MC.

    Pretty rough on Historians.

    Last edited: Nov 1, 2006
  12. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    I'd try and answer, but I've got no clue about half of what your talking about. And the other half has been asked and answered several times over the years.
  13. dianhsuhe

    dianhsuhe Co-Founder: Glow-Do

    Prof. Chow

    BGile- You stated Professor Chow was definitely a Mormon and "not a very good one"? What on Earth does that mean? And where did you get your info.?

    I am not sure why that matters but when you insult Professor Chow, it catches my attention to say the least.

    Gary- Do you ever cite anything specifically? I admit most of your posts I just scan since they are random and garbled.
  14. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Gary- Do you ever cite anything specifically? I admit most of your posts I just scan since they are random and garbled.


    I did not write that, I posted it from Will Tracy, to me, to John.
    He knows what it means. I explained it in another post about the time GM Sam, John and I were talking several years ago and GM Sam mentioned that Chow was not a mormon he disliked them.

    So, John knows exactly what I have said, and his answer tell's me he knows all I need to know.

    You want all the specifics and yet John won't answer my little bitty questions. LOL..

    So the question to Will was two fold, about Chow and about Oshita. His answer he sent, I delivered to the person asking for it, John.

  15. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    One confusing part about information both on Will Tracy's website and here is that the context is not clear for which the information is of value. For instance, there is a large history relating to Grandmaster Ed Parker, correcting what the Tracy's had mistakenly written in the past. Basically from what I can figure, the Tracy brothers took what Parker had told them and did some research and came up with the wrong dates. Will has corrected that but part of the message is that Ed Parker had misled them by his statements. What is missing is the context surrounding the reasons why Ed Parker said what he said.

    Then there is more on how American Kenpo is not the real Kenpo. The overall message there appears to be that Ed Parker changed his kenpo and that what is being taught by the Tracy brothers is more close to what was taught by Chow. I'm not sure exactly if that is the point, but the audience for the statements seems to be American Kenpo students that believe what they are being taught is the original Kempo when in fact it isn't. This is a fact that Ed Parker changed things so that in the mid 1960s he came out with American Kenpo which was not the exact same things as what he taught previously. Hence the different name (not called Kenpo Karate) that Ed Parker called it.

    Very good reply from Will. The first point about Chow being a Mormon is to the point. He even says that it was the Mormons who drove him from the Church. What is missing is the context of statements, what I read from this is that Professor Chow was a Mormon, maybe born as a Mormon, maybe converted, but the statement does not indicate which (have to go read that somewhere else). However, very clearly it states that Chow was driven from the Church. What is missing is the context of what Chow considered himself! :confused: I know plenty that were raised as Roman Catholics that now practice a different religion or do not actively go to church anymore. They do not call themselves Catholics even though at one point in their lives they were. So if Chow no longer went to Church (I don't know but it sounds like that may have been the case), did he, at all parts of his life consider himself to be a Mormon or were there times when he said or thought of himself not as a Mormon? I don't know because that context is missing but to be driven from the church certainly says that he is no longer part of the church in some way and he could have said he hated them.

    The context about the pictures in the book? Professor Bishop has clearly stated what he has researched to be that the woman in the book is not Professor Mitose's sister.

    Will Tracy believes, apparently, that the picture is Mitose's sister.

    This is a great example of why context is important. BGILE, maybe I'm taking sides here, but this is a very specific division... the answer is who is pictured in the book? I would think such a thing could be verified by an independent researching firm if someone wanted to put forth the money to do so.

    My point is that people will often say things in a certain context and not mean it to be taken out of that context. People might be vague about a date or events because they don't think it is important, but when interviewed for the facts, they might say something more truthful.

    I saw an example of this on an American Kenpo website that still claimed that Ed Parker opened the first commercial karate school in the Mainland. This to me is probably a cut and paste error or something in that the facts weren't verified. I have a book that is twenty-three years old that clearly states that he opened the first commercial karate school on the West Coast of the United States, not the first one in the mainland United States. If facts like that were in print twenty-three years ago... it isn't like such knowledge is not easily verifiable today. Although I still wonder why the State of Utah is considered part of the West Coast, I guess that would be a geography question.

    Just my thoughts on this.
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2006
  16. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado,
    Will Tracy believes, apparently, that the picture is Mitose's sister.

    I'll mention,

    Yes you are correct, Will knew and was trained by Oshita, he said it is her.
    Now John mentions different. So when you try to find out, you are stymied by one or the other. They are on different pages these two.

    So another time comes to mind, I was told to check with Bill Ryusaki about John Leoning and his status when arriving on the mainland I gave the information to Sonny Gascon, he said through others that helped me. John L was a black belt and he was my friend since they were very young.
    So I believe Sonny, since I was a student of Johns when in the 60's and had heard different then, what John is now saying, about John L.

    So Sonny tells me through Mike Rash that he talked to Bill R and Bill R does not know John Bishop, never met him. So you see my dilemma???

    I have followed John's advise and went forth and asked these questions..I have forwarded back and forth and when delivering to John he always seems to want to kill the messenger...ME...

    I am still the middle guy and I am just answering your questions, as I have mentioned in other post's I am knowledgable and can answer exact or not.

    Now I have to ask you? What would you do in this situation? Who would you believe? John or Danjo or Sonny and Mike Rash or Will Tracy?

    Thanks for asking.

  17. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Thanks for the last post. I have to say it was to the point and informative... much more like the first posts I read from you before the last week or so when things got really vague to me.

    Good question. I feel that things are not as simple as who to believe and who not to believe. So my answer would be that I believe all of them, but I don't believe everything they say, I would only believe the parts that they all agree to. The rest I would not know which was true.

    There must be some things that they all agree upon or nearly all of them agree upon... that would be what I would base my facts on.

    Where they differ, I might tend to believe in what Professor Bishop says, for instance, because I know him to be of good character and to have good researching practices. That still does not mean that what Professor Bishop says might not turn out to be incorrect, but even if so that doesn't mean he lied, only that if it turns out he is wrong about something, it is because he didn't have all the facts.

    My point is that where there is disagreement, I can't know for sure what is true, only an independent investigation (conducted by a completely unbiased and ethical group) could probably get to the real facts without scrutiny.

    I would like to not just point out differences but actually point out things that we all agree upon. This to me would really be setting things right to actually confirm what is the agreed upon facts. Then where there is a difference in opinion, that can be noted as "contested" information.
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2006
  18. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    Now this is why I have a hard time believing anythink you say. Everytime you run out of arguments, you make up something.
    Just like all the rest of the incorrect claims you've made, you don't have to believe me, you can ask other people.
    You can check this website: http://www.hmaisociety.org/Bios/grandmasters/ryusaki-b.htm
    where I'm listed in Bill Ryusaki's biography as one of his biographers.
    You can ask Cecil People's, the man who introduced me to Bill. You can ask Benny Urquidez, Dan Guzman, Otto Shumann. As recently as July (2006), you can ask GM Rick Kingi and GM Ted Sotelo who were there when I was talking to Bill at Sijo Emperado's tournament in Las Vegas.
    Oh, and here's the picture I took for Bill and Ted when Bill was promoted to 9th degree at Sijo's 2004 tournament.
  19. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    John I am hoping it is some mix up that can be clairfied to a good ending, but I am thinking it will just go on and on.

    So you took the picture.
    I have one of you and Dan and another who is not to be mentioned, standing doing the hi sign of the hawaiian that has become a real charmer, while the one not, looking a little embarrassed with it all.

    So the whole thing seems to me that if it is not clarified by Mike or Sonny I am the goat...LOL

    I'll stand by my post thanks very much.

    Has it not been clear about my position in this, a messenger?

    I have been requested to answer Mills Post over on SJK also so it will be getting deeper.
    All this never needed to happen but you like calling people name and some of us never forget and are in positions that are able to take advantage of it if they desire and I do now because of the insults.

  20. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    OK, good. Looks like we get a little reprieve while your at the SJK forum bashing Mills Crenshaw.
    Guess, I should have kept you on the "ignore", cause it never seems to end with you.

Share This Page