Will practicing internal kung fu make me hyperventilate?

I'll try my best embra.

Ibuki and nogare breathing are two different but interrelated ways of breathing during your training. Ibuki is the type of breathing you typically see when you observe the exhalation of a karateka during a kata, in this case Tensho kata below. Ibuki is also used when you execute a technique, such as exhaling with a punch or kick. A verbal kiai could be considered ibuki. Ibuki is also used in class to recover in between exercises as through the deep breathing it allows you to absorb more oxygen as you are breathing into the lower abdomen.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czJnxjixF-w"]Tensho Kyokushinkai kata - YouTube[/ame]

Nogare breathing, on the other hand, is where you hide your inhalations and exhalations from your opponent. Since we are at our weakest when we inhale, it only makes sense to safeguard this most vulnerable moment. This is also evident in Tensho kata and is masterfully displayed by Shihan Lowe.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psRlD8o1SwU"]Kiokushin.Tensho Kata - Shihan Bobby Lowe..wmv - YouTube[/ame]

Tensho kata was one of Mas Oyama's favorite kata and he stressed that all Kyokushin students should practice Tensho kata several times a day. Many Okinawan styles stress the same for Sanchin kata for their students, which also features both ibuki and nogare breathing.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS_Ayjecfd8"]karate kyokushin sanchin kata - YouTube[/ame]

As a final note, Shinyu Gushi of Uechi-Ryu/Pangai Noon is no spring chicken himself but he still practices one mean Sanchin kata.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESYN8thbFUQ"]Shinyu Gushi performs Sanchin - YouTube[/ame]

 

Deep breathing exercises have long been a part of physical culture the world over. If you look at a lot of the old physical culture manuals from the late 1800s to early 1900s you can find a lot of references to breathing exercises.

 

On a cursory glance at the article an a general browse of the sight, the descriptions and drawings are not that far away from some the Neikung of my TCC.

Its interesting that he was a famed wrestler. Applying Neikung to the mechanics of self alignment, opponent alignment, unbalancing and dispatching of the opponent; through force multipliers (Torque in Mechanical Engineering terms) and tactical invasion of the opponent's space; is for me the essence of Neikung, not Chi, Meridians etc.

In the exercises the respitory skill aids this, rather than hinders it. Endurance is another critical aspect in my mind.

 

Will come back to this when time permits, some interesting discussion here.

 

The negative effects are very real.What detracts from its value is having a poor teacher who dosen't understand the method.Sadly that applies to more than 90% of chi kung teachers in the UK.I fully agree with your last sentence but finding informed teaching is very difficult.

Shinyu Gushi has an incredible physique and shows just what is possible through dedicated training.

Bob Fitzsimmons demonstrated breathing exercises in his book.Kind of a very basic chi kung that used muscle compression and twisting on the exhalation.

 

Is anything other than anecdotal evidence available on this?

 

the only thing i can get from this is that getting into a odd breathing pattern might not be great for lifting like inhalation on contraction.

 

.I detailed the symptoms on the first page of this thread.The symptoms seem to be quite common amongst people who have practiced certain forms of yoga and chi kung incorrectly.

http://www.kktanhp.com/kundalini.htm

http://homepage.mac.com/mccajor/cbs_qigong.html

If you do a search you will find numerous references about this condition.

 

none of this is an actual study.

 

These would seem to suggest that the type of person attracted to qi gong practices is more likely to be susceptible to various psychoses. Similar conditions can also be found in many cults.

 

Anecdotal evidence = non-scientific observations or studies, which do not provide proof but may assist research efforts.

What you are posting, Putrid, is basically all anecdotal evidence.

 

Well if you can do any better try posting some links yourself.

In the meantime try reading Dr Chang's book again and paying attention to what he is saying.I haven't got a copy with me but he does speak about chi kung manifestations being used by dubious teachers to fool people into joining cults.The period he was talking about was in Old China,so it was in the 18th or 19th century.It still goes on today with cults such as falun gong.

Little Bunny Rabbit wrote

Not so sure I agree there.In my experience the kind of people who take up this practice tend to be more middle class and often academic.What I have seen is that some of them have health issues that haven't been resolved by western medicine so they look elsewhere.

 

You do know the problem with trying to prove a negative, right?

That isn't uncommon. Desperate people will turn to anything, that's what makes cults so dangerous.

 

A little OT, thank you very much for the information on where I can try looking for more information about Dr. Yu Pengsi. Been trying to track him down over the web, and as I cannot read Chinese it is very difficult finding anything in English about him.

 

Have you any evidence that chi kung is a cult? Say a woman who has attended a chi kung class at night school being admitted to a mental hospital suffering from cult syndrome? Falun gong is most certainly a cult but anyone with even a basic knowledge of chi kung wouldn't touch it with a barge-pole.

An article on sanchin kata.

http://gojuryu.net/articles.php?article_id=153

Basically the author is saying if it is practiced incorrectly the results can be horrendous.This mainly applies to people who have an underlying health condition.Chi kung is exactly the same but the problems tend to be far more subtle,and even more dangerous is the fact that it attracts people who are already ill.

 

I was simply comparing with activities which also seem to result in similar psychological disorders.

Well, uh, yes in fact. The people you posted as examples of why the negative effects are genuine would be perfect examples of this.

That looks very anecdotal to me - not even any evidence given, and seems to be more of a scare story to get people to do it 'right' than anything else.

 

the burden of proof lies on you trying to prove a point.

in reading doctor chang's work he seems quite bias towards chi kung.
much of the exercises he does are simple mobility work with no proven evidence on the effects of chi kung working on the things he said they do e.g. fertility etc.

 

So you know more than a man who has a degree in western medicine and is highly trained in chi kung? Perhaps you are suffering from Cixi syndrome.

I am not the biggest fan of Dr Chang's book but my opinion is based on a couple of decades of chi kung practice and training rather than reading a book and trying to form an opinion based on limited exposure to the subject material.

I will reply to Bunnies post when I get time.

 

yes i am arguing against dr. chang as his book claims to provide scientific background but does no such thing.
there is no studies or evidence provided in his book just as there is no evidence in your posts, just anecdote.

 

Chang's book was just a short introduction to the subject with a few basic exercises that people could try.It was hardly an academic tome.

This article is quite interesting.

http://www.qigonginstitute.org/html/Chen/Qi_Review1.htm