Why was General Choi exiled from Korea?

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by Ragnarok2005, Jun 8, 2006.

  1. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Valued Member

    Couldn't the same be said for the formats many "Japanese" arts borrowed from Okinawa?

    How about what Okinawa arts borrowed from China?
  2. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Valued Member

    The General Choi haters like to recite part of a stroy in an attempt to discredit him.

    Another popular one is reciting the story about Sun Duc Son demoting him and expelling him from the Chung Do Kwan but leaving out:

    1. The newspaper advertisement taken out by Sun Duc Son was done after he had already been removed as head of the CDK; and
    2. The very same ad listed the expulsion of Nam TAe Hi and Uhm Woon Kyo, and it is know that GM Nam remained a respected member of the CDK until he died and GM Uhm was president from that time for over 5 decades while GM Sun was forever gone.

    The events listed at #2 speak volumes for the purported actions of GM Son, and their effect yet they conspicuosly absent when the actions of the article are listed to discredit General Choi.
  3. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Actually his autobiography is in 3 Volumes. But Vol. 3 was never translated into English, only Vols. # 1 & 2 were. All 3 Volumes are in Korean. I have Vol. 3, but can't read it!
  4. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    The above referenced article is good, but it contains some flaws:
    "A schism between Hong-Hi Choi and the K.T.A. appeared in 1973. Choi planned to move to Toronto in 1974, and take the I.T.F. headquarters with him. Young-Wun Kim (President of the K.T.A.) was dismayed by this move, because he believed that the international headquarters of t'aekwondo should remain in Korea. As a result, Kim severed the K.T.A.'s ties to the I.T.F. and supported the formation of a new organization, the World Taekwondo Federation (W.T.F.), which was founded during the first World Taekwondo Championships held at the Kukkiwon from May 25 to May 28, 1973. The first meeting of the W.T.F was on May 26, and the organization was officially established on the last day of the championships. Choi responded by having J.C. Kim host the I.T.F.'s World Taekwon-Do Championships in Montreal in 1974, marking his determination to compete with the W.T.F. in Seoul."

    The schism began always or in 1965 when Gen. Choi was voted in as the 3rd president of the K. Tae SOO Do Assoc. In January & began to pressure them to change the name to his TKD label. The civilians were not soldiers under this former General's command. They reigned free since the military revolution in 1961, running Tae SOO Do as they saw fit, which was a new unique Korean martial sport. These civilian leaders also battled with GM Hwang Ki & Dr. Yoon, not just Gen. Choi. But GM Hwang also battled with Gen. Choi & went his own way, finally suing in SK courts for the right, which he won to have his way with Su Bak Do & not come under the sports focus.
    In January of 1966 the civilians pushed out Gen. Choi from the KTA helping him make the ITF. They replaced him with a north early Kwan founder, a 1st generation leader GM Ro Byung Jik. There were several attempts under the 5th KTA president a politician named Kim Yong Chae to compromise the technical format, for example a ratio or combined forms, ITF & the new KTA Palgwe forms. None of this worked. As Hen. Choi became more outspoken against the dictatorship & backed the losing opposition candidate, his days were numbered.
    But Gen. Choi fled in exile in 1972, moving the ITF to Toronto Canada in 1972, not 74.
  5. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Some other faults:
    "The distance between the I.T.F. and W.T.F. widened with the years. Hong-Hi Choi publicly denounced R.O.K. President Chung-Hee Park in September, 1977, claiming that that Park was "using Taekwon-Do for his political ends." Choi also made several peace overtures towards the D.P.R.K., and in 1981 he took a demonstration team of sixteen black belts to that country for ten days. While there, he met with not only his brother (whom he had not seen for more than twenty years) and one of his aunts, but also President Il-Sung Kim, who gave such audiences only on very rare occasions. Choi today is responsible for the spread of t'aekwondo to the D.P.R.K., and works for the re-unification of Korea. As a result of his work with North Korea, some South Koreans regard him as a traitor."

    Gen. Choi took the 7th ITF Demo Team to NK in Sept of 1980, not 1981. The team was not all BBs as it had a photographer with them as well. So the total was not 16, exact number escapes me.
    He did reunite with several of his family members & visited his old homestead, not seeing any of them for some 35 years, very sad from a human standpoint for sure! This was an opportunity that few divided Korean families ever get & it may have been the 1st or 1 of the earliest reunions. So who could blame him? But of course many do, as it was a treasonous act!
  6. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Yes they did screw with GM Hwang Ki. Too bad he didn't get along with Gen. Choi, they may have made a good team. You will notice many of GM Hwang Ki's detractors also question his ma background, but you never hear that about the others & what proof they had about actual ranks, etc.
    But gen. Choi & GM Hwang, who didn't play ball with the civilian sports focused 2nd generation leaders, were subjected to terrible things over the years, all unfitting IMO of proper ma behavior.
  7. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Gen. Choi, because of you, I too am Taekwon-Do. My life has been made better in many positive ways due to your personal influence on me, your writings, teachings & examples. I feel that what I try to pass onto my students & juniors in some small way helps them to be better, in hopes of building a more peaceful world that you wanted.
    I am certain that most, if not all parents of the children I teach are all grateful for helping them to raise better people. My adult students often thank me for my contribution, but I usually say, it is not me, it is Taekwon-Do!
    Thank you Spookey for reminding me
  8. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    I agree as I don't think it is used for that either!
  9. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    I do believe context is vitally important. For instance I am certain that what Gen. Choi hated or despised was the brutality & despicable treatment the Koreans & others (especially the Chinese in Nanking) suffered under Imperial Japan. Remember the atrocities committed during WWII. This is the context. Remember the Germans apologized for the terrible things that people could not believe really happened! The Japanese have not made peace with the Koreans yet. This is a sore point & understandable IMO.
    So it was the Empire of Japan, their Imperial soldiers & brutal colonial government which looked to totally eradicate Korean culture, language & dignity, so they could forever subjugate them & totally control them as 2nd class citizens. Do you knew that still today Koreans born & raised living in Japan are not Japanese citizens, but 2nd class residents.

    Hen. Choi took tremendous pride when the Japanese Team won Team Patterns at the WCs in 1988 Budapest. This was only 6-7 years after ITF TKD was introduced to Japan by the late GM PARK Jung-Tae!
  10. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Regardless of the extent or nature of GM Hwang's ma training, education or background, he is one the most influential Korean martial artist of all time.
    So I will spin this around & look at the other side of that coin:
    If GM Hwang had little to no formal martial arts training, he must have been a genius, a true visionary to have created his training system of MA, with his philosophy so strongly embraced by many. His positive influence is beyond compare, surpassed only by Ben. Choi, as far as Koreans go, IMO!
    (Of course Mas Oyama was Korean, but he more or less lived as a Japanese national)
  11. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Ok context is needed here. The ROK suffered under an authoritarian regime led by a puppet pretty much installed by the U.S. because Dr. Rhee was a staunch anti-communists & they were hard to find in Korea at the end of WWII. The new ISM to be battled after NazISM, FascISM & ImperialISM was communISM. It was the stated policy of the USA called containment. It marked the entry of America as the world's policeman, ending their previously preferred isolation policy.
    So after 12 years of Dr. Rhee & his corrupt Blue House, he was driven out if town in April of 1960. The govt that took over proved to be inept & SK was in fear of another invasion by the communists who may have been looking to take advantage of the chaos. So the ROK Military staged a successful coup, which Gen. Choi initially supported as it was carried out in the name of the ROK Army Chief of Staff, Lt. Gen. Chang. However Gen. Choi's junior Gen. Park, which Gen. Choi served on a military tribunal which court martial him years earlier, sentencing him to death, only to have his life spared when he turned in others, never have command to Lt. Gen. Chang.
    One of the ways Gen. Park took control was to order all social organizations to regroup & consolidate so the military govt could better oversee & regulate them. Gen. Choi, like others who were not in Park's inner circle were arrested, killed, fired, disappeared or in some cases, sent overseas on diplomatic assignments while Park consolidated his power. So Gen. Choi was sent to Malaysia as Ambassador. From 62-late 65.
    Afterwards Gen. Park on a trade mission to then West Germany, was greeted at the airport by TKD students sent by Gen. Choi Duk-Shin, Choi Hong Hi's sworn brother who was very supportive of TKD. At the time he was the Korean Ambassador to W. Germany as he was also not in the inner circle of the dictator Park. The inner circle was made up of the 8th Military Academy graduating class. The Gen. Choi's were the 1st class, Gen. Park was the 2nd class. The oft recognized mastermind of the coup was Col. Kim Jong-Pil, the nephew-in-law of Gen. Park & founder of the infamous KCIA. Col. Kim was the 1st honorary head of the ITF when it was formed in 1966. He was the eventual opposition candidate to Gen. Park, when Gen. Park refused to step down from office. Gen. Choi backed Col. Kim & paid the price, against the advice of Col. Nam Tae-Hi, co-founder of the OhDoKwan, who continued to back Park & was very close to park's daughter, the present day ROK president. Too bad Col. Nam passed away!
    So once Gen. Park saw the Western TKD students greet him at the W. German airport with Korean flags, he saw the potential of TKD as a powerful political & cultural propaganda tool. So when he started to support TKD, he wrestled control of it away from Gen. Choi. The rest as they say is history.

    This was why Gen. Choi was forced to exile, as he was a marked man. There is no doubt he would have been at least placed under house arrest or worse. Please remember 1972, when Gen. Choi fled to save his life, it was the height of the plurality of the pArk regime. He declared martial law again, he suspended the constitution again, he changed the election procedure again, insuring he would be president for life. He served from 1961 to 1979, when he was removed from office when he own KCIA director shot & killed him!
    While Park is revered by many, as he was the father of the economic miracle of South Korea, his human rights abuses were terrible. So bad that U.S. President Jimmy Carter, a deeply religious man, vowed to remove U.S. Soldiers from the ROK unless Lark reformed. This resulted not in reform, but corruption influence on the U.S. Congress by the KCIA in the scandal that became known as KoreaGate. The 2nd Gate named scandal after Nixon's WaterGate!
  12. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    #2 is factually incorrect. Gen. Choi exiled in 1972. He took the 7th ITF TKD Demo Team to NK in 1980 as a Canadian citizen. At the time it was a capital offense for South Koreans to go to NK. After he handed TKD, such a powerful political & cultural propaganda tool to NK, it was considered treason by many in SK & unforgivable. But this took place years after Gen. Choi fled to safety in the West. It was also years after a total onslaught from the KCIA at the hands of the dictatorship(s) broke the ITF down to almost nothing. Going to NK saved the ITF.
  13. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Yes & these accounts also conveniently leave out the motivation for GM Son's hard feelings toward Gen. Choi, which was - He (GM Son) was not allow on the historic TKD Demo Team that Gen. Choi led to Vietnam & Taiwan in March of 1959. This was the 1st time TKD was performed outside of Korea. GM Son wanted to go, but it was a Military TKD Team. GM Son was sore, as many of the team members were from his ChungDoKwan. He also was being marginalized by Gen. Choi. Those that knew Gen. Choi realized he was the boss, driven to succeed, with a more than healthy sized ego. He even marginalized the CDK Founder GM Lee Won-Kuk. Gen. Choi's Calligraphy was all over the CDK, his influence literally stared you in your face!
    Demo - March 1959
    June 4, 1959 notice statement given to Uhm Woon-Gyu which essentially replaced GM Son. Sgt. Uhm Woon-Gyu was supported by Gen. Choi to lead the CDK.
    June 15, 1959 an all ready marginalized & replaced GM Son makes the declaration that in reality had no effect.
  14. Spookey

    Spookey Valued Member

    I am Taekwon-Do

    My goodness has time passed, this thread started almost a decade ago...having seen the plight and heard the philosophy of many of the Taekwon-Do pioneers. I have to say that I am forever honored that God provided me this relationship with Taekwon-Do. It began with my Father through GM Kim, Bo Kyum & Gen. Choi, and has now carried on to my future generations.

    "Taekwon-Do Student" if we have met before I certainly hope we meet again. If you are not who I think you are, it would still be an honor to meet you one day. I appreciate your wealth of knowledge and commitment to Taekwon-Do Chang-Heon.

  15. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    It's been quite a while since we've visited this topic.

    I do like the Dakin Burd ick article, even though it is a bit dated now (18 years old). I also like that in the article he provides his sources.

    In that vein, can you cite sources for the 'faults' you mention in the Burd ick article? Don't get me wrong, I like the info and I trust you as a source, but I would like to know where your info is coming from (to compare to Burd ick's source)

    Thanks :)
  16. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Gen. Choi was not exiled, but he fled from SK to live a life in exile. He did so for many reasons, paramount among them was his outspoken criticism of the military dictator.
    Now he did not flee in 1974, nor did he plan to move there in 1974. He fled in early 1972. The sources are sooooooo many, including Gen. Choi's Memoirs, the "About The Author" section of the Encyclopedia of TKD, Vol. 1 & all the Condensed versions of that. The full 15 Vols & the Spanish edition are available for free download on Blue Cottage TKD. GM C.K. Choi's book confirms this, as he was instrumental in the move, as does GM Park Jong-Soo's interview from Rising Sun Productions. There were several interviews of Gen. Choi where he talks about the 1972 move. You can check the interview Dr. Kimm did in TKD Times, as well as his 900 page 2013 book TKD History.

    As far as the schism goes The Modern History of TKD by Kang & Lee, as well as the Yook April 2002 interview of Kukki TKD Titan GM Lee Ching-Woo, along with Gen. Choi's Memoirs, Dr. Kimm & CK Choi's aforementioned books all talk about the schism being when Gen. Choi was elected the 3rd president of the Tae SOO Do Assoc. & forcing the name change to his TKD label. These sources all talk about the several attempts to compromise that never worked.
    By always I was meaning that the KMA community never was able to work together since attempts in the 1940s & 50s under the Kong Soo Do banner.

    Dr. Kim Un-Yong has stated repeatedly that his vision had 3 parts to it:
    1- make TKD the Korean national sport
    2- internationalize it
    3- seek Olympic sport status
    Just 2 months after he took office as the 6th president of the KTA he had Gen. Park write Kukki TKD. The following year he completed the KKW that was started by the 5th President Kim Yong-Chae. As the article correctly states the wtf was formed in May 73 during the 1st TKD WCs. Dr. Kim envisioned a new world body to regulate TKD as a world sport, as the KTA was to local to do that. By looking to create the wtf he knew it would combat the ITF. Gen. Choi liked to say he fled Korea to save TKD & the SK govt responded by creating the wtf. Actually Dr. Kim wanted his own global group as part of his overall plan. Read his book & check Alex Gillis as he consulted Dr. Kim's book for his work.

    As for when Gen. Choi went to NK, see his Memoirs. He also lists it in the back of all his books post 1980 & Dr. Kimm, alex gillis & C.K. Choi all confirm this as 1980, not 1981.

    Sir you are interested in TKD's history, so I recommend all the above sources, especially Mr. Gillis & Dr. Kim's 900 page master compilation.
    Gen. Choi's 15 vols, 1965 book, Dr. Kim's TKD Times article on his interview of Gen. Choi, Kang & Lee' Modern History & Yook's interview of GM Lee are all available for free on the web.
    Good Hunting!
  17. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    Very nice sources.. thanks
  18. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    You are most welcome!
    Also don't misunderstand his work is excellent & in many ways groundbreaking, especially for people like me. So I only pointed out what are minor mistakes he made with reference to dates, etc. His substance is strong, I just didn't want people attacking his good substance by pointing out minor errors in things like dates, especially when some dates come from Korea, who at times use different calendars & count years differently.
  19. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    No worries. His article, as published in Journal of Asian Martial Arts, was well researched, well written, well documented, and peer reviewed. Anything that corrects any errors in his work should show source documentation as well, just to be on a more even keel. Thanks for showing sources!

Share This Page