i've gone through the rosters of UFC, K-1 and Pride FC, and i only found one Chinese guy. it's strange because China has the largest population in the world, yet there is only 1 fighter in MMA tournaments. also, there are no fighters from Hong Kong or Taiwan. all the Asian fighters are either Japanese, Thai or Korean. why is this the case?
I read somewhere recently that China has less people attending all professional sporting events in a year than go to to see regular season pro football games in one week in the US. Perhaps there just isn't the emphasis placed on it in their culture? Then again if you were a chinese martial artist, would you want to go against this? http://www.metacafe.com/watch/84253/bob_sapp/ Of course, it might be worse to go against the 2 people who have beat him.
but there are a lot of fighting tournaments in China, mainly San Shou. San Shou is a competent stand up art. i think a good San Shou guy can survive in a tournament like K-1. there are also tournaments like this in Hong Kong and Taiwan. i know it's not because they're afraid of fighting foreigners, because there's been a lot of professional fights between Chinese Martial Artist and Karate and Muay Thai fighters. is it because they just want to stay at home & fight people with the same styles all the time? or do they simply not know about K-1 and Price FC? this is unlikely given the similar pop culture of Hong Kong, China and Taiwan to Japan and Korea.
That is not totally true, in Beijing there is the "Baxi Roushu" club (BJJ), that has several fighters and helps promote some events. In Taiwan there is at least one black belt BJJ club, led by a man name Andy Wang and he regularly fights, and I think Howard Liu of HCK is Taiwanese. MMA is very small, but please remember that it is a very new sport and China has no basis to build it upon. In the four biggest countries involved in the formation of MMA: Japan, Brazil, USA, and Russia, each one had a basis upon which MMA could rapidly be built and disseminated. For Brazil it was the success of the Gracies and the attention their actions drew and a large and varied martial arts community, from Jiujitsu to Muay Thai. For Japan there was already a strong tradition of real-looking pro-wrestling, from where people like Sakuraba and Ken Shamrock come. In addition, Japan has millions of people who were already in MMA applicable MA before the advent of MMA: Judo, boxing, wrestling, and kickboxing. In America the success of Pay-per-view vastly increased exposure that it received, as well as the novelty of the sport. America also has a strong wrestling tradition, which led to a plethora of athletes ready to fight on the big stage. Russia and USSR in general has a strong tradition of wrestling, Judo, Sambo, boxing, and kickboxing- giving us athletes like Emelianenko, Kharitonov, Arlovski, and others. China has none of these advantages. It is very hard to spread information about any sort of novelty because of government control. Also, the number of people engaged in martial arts is low (not counting Wushu) and even lower when considering arts applicable to MMA. Also, my people, in general, are not the biggest fight fans in the world. Many Chinese are puzzled at why I would get in a ring to fight someone I don't hate and don't want to injure. But don't say we don't have any MMA
thanks for the info. i always wondered why that was. but it's good to see at least one Chinese fighter in K-1. it means there's definitely a future for Chinese in MMA. his name's Zhang Qing Jun. he's a Sanda fighter. i'm guessing Sanda is similar to San Shou. pretty crazy that the guy's younger than me, and already he's a world champion in some tournaments. i'm a Canadian born Chinese by the way, so i have particular interest in this .
It appears (from here in Hong Kong at least) that it might be only a short time before MMA takes off in China. In Asia in general it's been gaing popularity for quite a while. Phillipines is right now the hot bed of MMA competition. They have weekly regular fights and a skads of fighters. They already had a good basis in that Boxing is mondo popular in the Phillipines - so MMA wasn't too hard to set in motion there. China is a bit of a different animal though. First off there is massive group think in action there. Few do jack if it's not acceptable on a mass level. The culture itself places empahsis on conforming and group action as opposed to individual thinking and action. Overt nationalism is also an issue - sinocentrism often clouds their vision. There are a skad of government issues as well. Martial arts as whole are a contentious issue for the government. They historically have not been something the powers that be were fond of fostering in the populations at large. Up until recently (it may still be the case) boxing matches amongst Chinese are not allowed in China. They were for a long time out and out illegal. It's not due to any shortage of game Chinese... of which they're plenty. Most of which seem to come from the Fujian province. My Muay Thai coach is Chinese and is the Hong Kong champion for several years running - his bouts have included both locals and plenty of Thai's and Europeans. There are many others as well that are local and fight and fight well. In Hong Kong - the fight scene has recently gained momentum but there is still a stereotype about it that will make most parents veto any attempts to get into it from their kids. Though perhaps this is slowly changing. Very slowly. The WBC has inroads into Hong Kong and they have hosted several events wtih X-Plosion events and such. We've hosted such greats as Jean Charles Skarbowsky and Buakaw - even fighters from as far afield as Russian an Eastern Europe. Magamedov has fought here many times as has John Wayne Parr and Arslan M-16. Granted they aren't Chinese. There are some up and coming. But like anything it'll take time and political will. Much of China - despite the hype is still at subsistance level farming. The news and hearsay loves to run on and on about this and that - but at the ground level - China is for many purposes the third world. The levels of poverty are massive. So it will take some changes in dynamics for fighting as a profession to become more accepted.
@Liao Rouxin and Slipthejab: you two are my favourite posters, every of your posts i'e read so far is always very very informative. As for MMA not being very popular in China, I think it's b/c the sport doesnt gain the much interest in the mass. True that they have crazy sanshou teams, but MMA(defined by competitions like Pride, UFC, Shooto etc) is very very new. I've never been 2 China, so I cant say exactly, but I assume that media, information are heavily controlled by the government, which is why the people dont know much about it => not alot of participants==>not alot of competitions
Hmm, this was actually pretty insightful, to say the least. But it is true that conforming to the majority thought is a part of the country's main ideal. Whether it be progressive or not, really. After all, it IS Communism.
very insightful Liao Rouxin and Slipthejab, thankyou. Although i know little of the chinese political climate i do know that sanshou is a very complete form of stand up fighting. My friend came second in the world championships last year and he and his other training partners from the shaolin temple UK often fight muay thai fighters and almost always win. so china should have a lot of potential stand up wise.
*shakes head* No sir. it is not. San Da = free sparring used for 10s of hundreds of years before the rise of Chinese communism. San Shou = Chinese kickboxing with takedowns. Created by the communist government.
After further experience with it, there’s much to be said about the lack of Chinese MMAists. What I’m initially seeing is that there just aren’t many realistic fighters left within the form. CMAs had a strong history of scientifically testing each theory and method that was evolved and innovated. Unfortunately, for reasons what we’re all aware of by now, this practically doesn’t exist any longer. Secondly, there isn’t a unanimous organization to help further the progression of the form. While other arts may have organizations, they’re nowhere near the level of say, Miletich Camp, Team Punishment or the Gracie Family, nor on the level of the competitions that promote and help evolve them even further. Specifically, the need for experts and masters who are consistently training and pressure testing their art forms in order to share amongst their mates. What works, what doesn’t work. Despite anyone’s opinion on each team or organization, CMAists don’t have this anymore where competent fighters are produced on a regular basis. At one time, this was exactly what the Shaolin Temple served as. Multiple masters from different perspectives and art forms who trained their students to become the best athletic fighters humanly possible (with the addition of Buddhism, of course). This was also the initial dream of Chin Woo organization as well back during WWII, which was also short lived. One can argue that MMAs are primarily for sport. But the more experience that I have with its exponents, I’m discovering that nothing could be further from the truth. They, like any other martial artist possess the tools to adapt to given combat situations just as well. Had eye gouging, groin attacks, etc. been allowed, I’m more than sure that the same strong MMAists that exist today would be just as lethal. And in many ways, ground Chin Na seems much more technical and skillful than stand up striking or standing Chin Na is as well. I’m having a ball with getting to train with BJJ and MMAers now. It’s not much different from CMAs any other MA, really. The core aspects seem to translate to positioning, i.e. “stances” for leverage and power applications through grappling and striking. Same theories as when standing, but different at the same time. After that, having ample experience with Chin Na, it’s all the same ‘ish after that, really. Whether they tend to agree with me or not, I believe that most CMAs need to wake up to certain evolutions in this way and really quite whining and moaning with excuses. It’s possible that a sense of fear for losing one’s Martial Identity may be a factor as well, for which I can understand. But at the same time, you have to get over it, without letting this fear hold you back. In doing this, I’ve just found out the simple truth to the matter: it’s all the same thing, really. At one time, our martial history had leaders, innovating and evolving the combative forms. So if there needs to be a game of “catch up” here, I figure that now is as good a time as any.
A bit irrelevant. What matters is Chinese Martial Arts, not the Chinese people. In this case, of course.
No, I think this thread was actually about why Chinese people don't participate in MMA, not why CMAists don't participate in MMA.
Well there are MMA tournaments in China. I've seen a couple of videos on it. However, they're very lackadasical. It's not much different from the "blah" attitude that they have toward their own martial arts, mostly. The most effective I've seen were the San Da fighters. But other than this, the MMA is way over their heads. Even though it's the thread subject, I believe the most important aspect that needs to improve are the CMAs themselves. Not the people, really. If they won't do it, then everyone else needs to drag it kicking and screaming into evolution. Unfortunately, China's people are a product of their government.
i have found these 2 videos about MMA tournament in China. I m not 2 sure about where the location is, the specific rule http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1669518737574022110&q=vale+tudo ->file a http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7398698201127155549&q=vale+tudo -> file b I really dont like the comments on the right of the video. Better than Pride FC? Dream on, son...
I am a Chinese American Promoter of MMA events ... licenced in NJ to promote Amateur and Professional MMA events...I have asked the teams and trainers from China why there aren't more MMA fighters from China...one of the answers is the fact that their ground work needs work...also the government doesn't really support the MMA movement... I do have to say that the Chinese community really does love to watch Combative sports...I regularely get a good turnout from the Chinese community to my events...
