Why Karate will get you killed in self defense

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by Isaiah90, Feb 24, 2021.

  1. jmf552

    jmf552 New Member

    For you to say those guys are not legitimate, I assume you have actually read their works and you know their backgrounds. Miller and Freeborn have been in dozens of life and death fights with hardened criminals. I define mental training the way they do. Your mention of percentages misses the point completely. It is the Pareto Principle, a well known illustration of a rough order of magnitude. Anyhow, you are ignored.
  2. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    You didn't answer any of my questions though.

    Why are those guys legitimate? Just because they say so in their book doesn't mean they are. Lots of people say they're legitimate and know things in their books when it's a bald faced lie. Just read anything from a politician! Could you point me to maybe a list of names somebody has fought that was a hardened criminal? I'm sure there are records of their imprisonment somewhere, and that would certainly be a step in validating who they are. I doubt all three of them come to the same conclusion about "mental aspects" in the flippant way you seem to, even though I have no clue who they are. I'm a pretty "in the know" guy, but I'm usually only knowing things that matter. If only I had known about the PARETO PRINCIPAL, a well known illustration of a rough order of magnitude, I could have simplified all my successes and achieved things quicker with much better understanding. This is why I need you to not ignore me. Explain these things to me : (. I'm not even smart enough to do my own research on these guys, I would like to rely on your opinion.
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  3. Botta Dritta

    Botta Dritta Valued Member

    I'm quite a Rory Miller fan, I have meditations on violence on my shelf and most of his other works on kindle. His background is in Varsity Fencing, Judo, Jiu-Jitsu (there is politics on this, but it would be churlish to go into it) and a verified career in as a prison guard with a focus on extractions. Funnily enough no where does he say that Violence is mostly mental. Infact most of exultations are to stop reading his books and watching his videos and go and physically train, but just tweak some aspects. His violence theoreticals are broadly based on Maslow's Hierarchy of needs, which I suspect is from his University training in psychology. But he's as far from a navel gazing theoretician as you can possibly get)
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  4. jmf552

    jmf552 New Member

    Miller gets into the mental aspects in his later book, "Facing Violence: Preparing for the Unexpected" which even he says is the best book he's written.
  5. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Well that's not true at all. Karate wasn't the art that taught me how to handle violence, but it led me there.

    I can handle violence pretty well. In my own opinion, obviously.
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  6. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    No physical training works? well that's obviously not true, what happens if the class is taught by one of the people listed!

    Rory writes really well about working with violence, but his hands on work is disappointing unfortunately, I'm sure he does know what he's talking about on a tactical/planning level, but in terms of physical skills there's other places to look at.

    Tim Larkin is a grifter, "scars" is just reworked low level San soo material, and his new "art" is essentially the same with a different name, that he's marketed towards the "libertarian god/ big guns and small guberment" crowd

    And varg freeborn (which is obviously a edgy pen name from his nineties MySpace account) from a very brief look at his interviews and free pdfs it seems like more of the same grift.

    If anyone has time and energy you can legally download his book from Amazon, skim read it and then return it and get a full refund.

    The Pareto principle ended up become a meme a few years ago, where all sorts of grifters used it to sell books etc, there's so much misinformation out there, I'd be wary of anyone using it outside of its original context, in place of a decent argument.
    (Which also includes some very good instructors too unfortunately)
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  7. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Forgot about scars thanks I needed a laugh this morning :)

    Why anyone who wanted to know the reality of violence wouldn't list Geoff Thompson is beyond me
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  8. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I just had a look at Larkin's new videos, I think high Blood pressure is gonna take him before an armed attacker does!

    Geoff doesn't have a system to sell,
    He doesn't promise quick fixes, and his aims are focused in personal growth and overcoming adversity.

    And that's why he's one of the best.

    The RBSD community is wild isn't it, 90% fakers, and the 10% who aren't find it hard to be successful without selling out.

    For the record I like Rory miller's books, and I wouldn't put him in the same category as the other two at all.
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  9. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Geoff's old books and videos are still the most reliable source on violence in the street out there, what 20 years or more later.

    But as you say it's not a sellable system it's just the truth of what happens and he has moved in to different things now.
  10. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    What is Geoff doing nowadays?

    I know he was doing motivational speaking etc, at one point.

    I think it's very hard to make money out of martial arts, without selling something that's not fit for purpose (most of martial arts, including RBSD ), based on fear (RBSD again) or setting up a pyramid scheme (GB/IBJJF).

    BJJ/MMA/nogi/etc has had a boom recently but that's because their skills/labour were in short supply, as was decent downloadable content, neither of those things are scarce anymore, it will be interesting where "the market goes".

    I can't see people making hundreds of thousands from selling instructionals for much longer.
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  11. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Yeah, I remember liking a few articles he'd written, then I saw some videos of him moving and, well... disappointing.

    I would love to see him functioning when he was working in prisons. I wonder how it compares to his seminar material.
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  12. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Geoff Thompson is great, but he is great for a particular demographic, or at least his earlier books and Animal Day training was, I don't know if he diversified later.
  13. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    I think he is on the spirituality, self help dealing with violence in your lives that way thing now. Also doing a lot of writing.
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  14. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Yeah, last I saw of him he was talking a lot about his porn addiction and personal growth.
  15. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I'm a big fan of learning when it's my amygdala making me do certain behaviours, and when it's my more rational brain in charge.

    Interestingly things that trigger the amygdala, are really good for marketing, so you can see why most of the RBSD style training courses and content actually make the situation worse, people go to them because they are scared (sometimes other reasons, ex military etc) and the courses actually make them more scared. "Kill or be killed" etc, it's vicious cycle, that works really well in establishing a repeat customer base.
  16. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    I think his stuff is still applicable to a lot of situations today, not sexual assault or attacks of that nature, although he would have been the first to say what he wrote and showed was applicable to the situation he faced in his day, situations change, match fighting in his dad's day to 3 second fighting and predators in geoffs day for example. He probably never had to think about extremists carrying multiple knifes for example
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  17. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    The reality of violence is that most of us will go through our whole lives never really experiencing true violence, the other reality is that the vast majority of westerners are more at risk of cardiac and health issues due to being overweight and poor lifestyle choices than true violence.

    But that doesn't sell seminars and DVDs lol
  18. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    "Systematically avoiding covid 19, car accidents and cardiovascular disease by avoiding people, potato wedges and using incredible braking pressures......"

    Now reduced from 199.99 to only 58.98!
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  19. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Boxercise is more likely to save your life than attending 100 RBSD seminars where you don't break a sweat!
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  20. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    The Pareto principle is just used as buzz word bingo most of the time. If you ever see someone presenting a pie chart with 20% and 80% marked on it, you know they have no idea what they're talking about.
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