The students of O sensei that I have had the pleasure to train under were all direct people that spoke thier mind, why is it that 3rd and 4th generation aikidoka are so worried about offending others? Love, peace harmony,...thats great but when something is bad its bad. Some people are not good at what they do and some where not meant to practice aikido....yet as a whole, the aikido community tries to accomadate all (just MHO). Why? In O sensei's day you needed character references just to ask the man if you could practice, yet now everyone is always welcome. To me, budo, any budo is about forging the spirit through the physical and is not for the weak in mind,spirit or body. I think all deserve a chance to get on the mat and try it out, but do all deserve to stay? Please don't take this as an elitist rant, its simply a question in order to stimulate some converstaion beyond the "does aikido work" threads that so often populate MA forums. cheers, bambeer
The Japanese have a saying: "A flying bird leaves no dirty water" which I have always (loosely) interpreted as if you've got nothing good to say say nothing. BUT I agree that this has led to a PC type mentality where no-one can speak their mind; or if they do its considered bad form. There is some poor Aikido around in the UK and a lot of people deluding themselves and others. A good example is inflated grades (I know a few "8th Dans") and the dubious assumption of totals such as Soke or Shihan. It's interesting I think that such people always publish a limited history of their lineage, if they publish one at all. That's why forums such as these are extremely useful as they at least give people a chance to discover the truth of the some more outlandish claims.
Who is to say who can continue to practice an art and who can't? Martial Arts are for all people, regardless of skill. If you refuse someone access to an art because they are not good at it, how are they going to get better? I know little about Budo...I'm assuming its an idea in the context of a Feudal Japanese class system (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong ), and that is simply not relevent in today's democratic society, where all people are equal, regardless of class. Again...I must stress my ignorance of Aikido, Budo and all things in general!
Aikido is so PC because politics seems to have become embeded in every Aikido organisation. Politics also played a major part in Aikidos early development. Even new organisations seem to very quickly become bogged down in politics and subtle power struggles. I think this is partly due to a missinterpritation of Japanese culture here in the west, the Japanese takeing advantage of western ignorance, the individuales own ego or ambition and the individuales tendencey to worship O Sensei and other teachers as though they walked on water. Any negative or indeed constructive cirtisism of any given teacher seems to be taken with great offence. It seems some students wish to beleive their teachers are perfect and flawless. Who is allowed to continue practicing is a decision taken by two parties. The teacher and the student. If mutual consent is absent from either party then the student must look elsewhere for tuition. Personaly I feel a teacher should be willing to teach anybody willing to put in the effort to learn. None of us are about to rush out and face an army of Samurai. So what's the rush? If it takes student 'A' longer to learn than student 'B' then so be it. Give student 'A' that extra time to grow and develop.
That was really nicely written. To me, its the effort to learn that means the most. I don't think I could ever be discouraged teaching when people are trying...its when people want rank handed to them just because they show up that I get rather irritable. I believe you've hit something with the politics and the subtlties of egos hard at work. In my city alone we have 3 organizations ASU, USAF and Yoshinkan, out of that 3 seperate USAF groups that don't cooperate, 1 ASU (us) and 2 more yoshinkan which don't cooperate either. There are also 2 independant groups. It seems in most cases its the head instructors that are quite bullheaded when it comes to getting together, cheers, bambeer
I agree with the all deserve a chance to try it out. Some will like it and stay, and people that don't like it or aren't suited for it won't be training for too long anyway. As I heared someone on the mat once say: (Can't really remember who though...) "Don't take your Aikido training for granted. Its a privellege, and not a right. *ow sounds serious *
I'm quite happy to sit on the other side of the politically correct fence. In so far as Aikido is concerned, I will never have an issue taking a problem as I see it up with people concerned. I think its fair to say that a number of people within the UK Aikido community are well aware of my personal opinions and veiws in one or two quarters. Granted I may be unpopular with those who've I've challenged in the past and, in hind sight (isn't that a wonderful thing) I've come to realise my development and progression has been affected by my actions however, morals and personal opinions are expensive things, especially if you are prepared to stand by them. I have little time for people with hidden agenda, as far as I'm concerned being upfront means everyone knows where they stand; I've found this is generally appreciated in the long run. Regards
We're PC? We're worried about offending others? Honestly, I hadn't noticed. It's more my impression that we offend people all the time, mostly other aikidoka. (I'm not saying that's a good thing, mind you.)
IMHO I'd be honest but be careful. I'm not bothered about PC language, but I would like to avoid a court case. It's very annoying to be constrained from commenting on a truly bad club with incompetent instructors and pretend grades, but we have to stay within the libel laws in our own countries and of the UK where MAP originates (I think). I suggest that whilst we can (and do) express pretty robust opinions, we should avoid comments which may directly damage the reputation of a dojo or instructor. Using an 'alias' is no protection as I'm pretty sure real ID info would be provided if MAP was sued (?). It's a sad world where people sue over damaged reputations but suing for defamation is becoming much easier and cheaper here in the UK. We now have instructors who make their living out of MA and if you damage their reputation thay are well within their rights to sue for damage to their business and income. Ask questions and make comment but I would avoid commenting negatively on such things as the safety or competence of an instructor or dojo - unless, that is, someone is happy to lose their house in a lawsuit and have MAP get hit for damages as the publisher of a libel. Of course, if you are classified as an 'expert witness' and can prove the truth of what you say - go for it!
Hmmm - where have I heard that before? I have worked in marketing and in education and I have to tell you that IMHO the UK is changing fast - very fast. Every day the 'no win, no fee' lawyers find a new target so don't bet on MAP being safe. Example: 'Watchdog' showed a recent case of a fat woman in a wheelchair who is suing several shops under the brand new Disability Discrimination Act because their steps are too high and she is 'distressed'. Fair enough, but she was 'distressed' by 84 shops in a single day! Whatever we may think, LEGALLY she has a case and will probably win compensation from these hapless shopkeepers. They probably thought they were safe, too. I have been an editor and I know a bit about libel law. Some MAP members need to be more careful and, Aikiwolfie, make sure you don't happen to be the moderator 'responsible' for letting one get thru the net. Volunteer or otherwise, you will be liable too, as will MAP as 'publishers' of a libel. End of lecture, hopefully scary enough!!
Kiaiki if you have seen something being posted on MAP that you are genuinely concerned about then report it to a moderator and it will be dealt with. Otherwise lets move on from sueing people.
They do say little knowledge is a dangerous thing... Now when you've finished telling Aikiwolfie how to mod the forum, you should know that people are ultimatley responisble for what they post themselves on this forum. The moderating staff, Aikiwolfie included, are NOT liable and will NOT be held accountable if someone runs down an Aikido school here. Anything thats THAT bad usually gets removed anyway, but its not against the law to have an opinion. Now lets drop the legal bumfluff and get the thread back on track please.
Ok - I'm entitled to my say and I've had it. Kgirl - I'm not TELLING Mods what to do, I'm posting an opinion and advice so don't TELL me what to do either thanks. Copyright and libel DO apply on MAP. I suggest Mods check out the law and discuss it with Yoda etc before being so glib about their replies. If you don't care that's fine - but be very aware that as PUBLISHERS of every word we type you ARE in the brown and sticky stuff up to your necks if this site publishes a libel. Nuff said, up to you.
If they can hunt me down in the states they can fight me for whatever I've got. They'll never get me I'll tell ya, never!!!
oooooo....wow..what would *** do? Hugs, My, we are becoming a paranoid world! I'm in the US, so sorry to hear about the UK, and I found the original topic very interesting... I recently read "The Art of Peace," that includes writings from Ueshiba, as well as a bit about his life, and more. Seems, to me, Ueshiba was PC! Could it be Aikido follows some of his hard won wisdom? As far as all these comments, have we truly put aside a principle in Aikido? You know, an "attack" is nothing more than a gift of energy to be embraced, and danced with... LOL..and blessings... luv, Jess :Angel: P.S. As far as dojos, senseis and other giggles...reps have a way of becoming evident...and, as in all the MAs, as well as other areas of life, there are those that excel, those that are mediocre, and those that, well, are best avoided. And this is different for everyone! Why hide our opinions, as long as we state them as our opinion?
We have. The Admins had already done their homework even before the issue was raised on this particular thread. MAP is not in danger. Carry on.
I've discussed this with Yoda and AikiMac and they seem to be on top of the libel stuff. Sorry everyone to waste postings on this, but it is pretty damn important. On to the PC debate: My Sensei Eddie Stratton trained with Shioda Sensei in Japan., as tough as it gets. He was not at all pompous and not PC by any means. He revelled in 'popping' any egos that arose in gradings and loved to play practical jokes on everyone, particularly the 'tough' types. He was wonderful, enthusiastic and would spend huge amounts of his time helping others. However, anyone who had any arrogance or was idle etc was in for a tough time - tears of joy and tears of pain. For example, on one summer school we started at 6.30 in the morning. The group was to run 2 miles to a freezing cold river, stay in it for a while doing 'misogi', do some exercises, meditation and run back ready to start the day's training. He asked who wanted to be first to undergo the 'test'. All the young and headstrong threw up their hands - and off they went with an RAF survival instructor and superhero! The rest of us thought we were in for the same, but Sensei simply said: 'Stupid sods - right, let's get breakfast!'. 90 minutes later the others returned, freezing, bleeding and puking. Great practical joke and a good lesson for the youngsters that pain does not necessarily mean gain.
