Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by jonjones229, Jan 31, 2019.
Of course you do
Of course you do
Only the one
Only the one
Could be due to all "no ill feeling, or negativity to any of" us, you mentioned right before doing so anyway.
Sorry to hear that. I had a friend who died after getting his legs blown off by an IED.
I have found first aid training useful though. Saving someone from hypothermia and dealing with someone unconscious with blood peeing out of his head after getting knocked out and landing on the curb (I didn't know him or see him get knocked out).
How many did you know personally?
I mean I didn't even mention the fact that one of first posts in this thread you jumped in and, incorrectly I might add, explained how to do an rnc like you were blessing some utter noobs with your knowledge.
I let that slide and just picked up the other rubbish.
Non , and how does that relate to your assertion I would freeze ?
Also , you should understand as a moderator I can see when you edit a reply ........
That's simply not true. You were told about the current recommendations from first aiders on what to do in response to someone being choked out. This doesn't include shaking the legs, which implies it is certainly worse than putting someone in the recovery position. It may not be the perfect evidence you were asking for, but given the potential, however small, for a neck or spine injury at the same time as choking someone out this should be obvious and not a point that anyone should argue.
The real question is whether there are any benefits to shaking someone's legs that wouldn't be equally present with, say, bloodletting, a practice which was also carried out for years to assist with medical issues and which was probably still practiced in spite of developing knowledge by those who considered anything other than bloodletting to be politcal correctness gone mad, or something.
Basically if you can't demonstrate efficacy of an alternative, you should be doing exactly what the professionals teach in their first aid classes and staying away from weird home remedies that you think will do better or just as well. This is just common sense.
Which was a stupid argument because you also have no qualifications, however there are plenty here who have learned directly from those who carry out emergency first aid for a living, and those people have indicated that the taught practice does not include shaking the legs of a choked-out individual. As such, authority is not on your side at all.
Are you seriously asking whether the rear naked choke is dangerous and demanding evidence to back this up in a thread which is talking about reviving people from unconsciousness as a result of application of said choke?
Well, you call yourself "old bloke" and made comments about how the old ways were perfectly fine and how this was all political correctness or something, then tried to tear down others by attacking for a lack of authority that you also lack. Think about where the blame for this perception might lie...
[QUOTE="Old bloke, post: 1075056107, member: 91181"
Only the one[/QUOTE]
Did you waggle his legs?
I'm pretty sure your lying too, if that had happened, you wouldn't be bringing it up on an online forum because your loosing a debate.
Do you seriously keep playing "my... hands are bigger then yours", and even trying to use that as an argument?
Feels a bit desperate, to grasp straws like that.
Makes zero difference. Only in an emotional context is different but the practice will still be the same.
Yes different injuries/context around the injuries could call for different methods. But if you find an unconcious person. You go through the Dr ABC and then chuck em onto the recovery position.
But as mentioned, we are talking about strangulations. In the context that it was done by human arms.
Which has differing affects than if it was a ligature strangulation.
The difference between cutting bread with a bread knife and a sharp kitchen knife. You still end up with sliced bread but they aint gonna look the same.
But since we know the cause of unconciousness then we are able to go from there.
And therefore most likely place the person into recovery but with the supported head version.
But...most people will wake up within seconds of the release anyway. Its only an issue if
A) victim was belly down arms trapped cant tap
B) chocker did a Paul Harris
C) swallowing of the tongue.
Dont really see what the problem is here....
You said your method was taught all over the world in MA schools and lots of other places, though. How do you know it's inherently "safe"? It seems like you're shocking a system that just went into shock. Unless the heart has actually stopped, why would you do something like that, try to shake them. I don't know.
That's what I know to do. The basic idea is encouraging blood back to the upper half of the body and hopefully the body does what it's supposed to. If it doesn't, CRP or defibrillation may be required, I guess. On the side recovery position makes total sense although I've never seen somebody both pass out and vomit at the same time training. But if I did, UK recovery position ftw!
This is the post I was referring to. "In many MA classes", what do you mean. "Is not illegal", obviously unless you injure or kill someone doing it, right?
The other advantage to the sideways position is to protect the head. You place their hand under their head which helps to cushion it against the floor should they try and fail to lift their head or have mild convulsions.
And if they do have a convulsion whilst in a recovery position, theyre in a safer position and have a lower chance of injuring themselves further.
Hence the name....recovery. position. (Albeit not the be all and end all of all places to put them in)
Seriously. This is like 7 pages of debating whether waggling legs is a good idea or not ....
The funny part is looking back at the original reason the thread took the turn it did. I honestly took more umbrage at the 90 degree part. Simply put, why the need for any sort of manipulation? When people pass out, you lay them on the back, or if you're double careful, on their side, that seems to be the prevailing wisdom from most MA people here.
That's why "many MA schools do this" was really questionable, I don't think that's a fair statement. Which schools? Now there's a good question. If it's such a commonly taught thing, there should be some sample we can look at.
"the lion killer is a blood hold and not a choke hold, the lion killer is the adams apple is in the hinge of the left arm (in my example), put the left hand on the right bicep, then bring the right arm around the back of the head, so like you crossed/folded your arms Formed a triangle around the neck, then squeeze against the main veins of the neck, if done correctly, you opponent will be unconscious within 20 seconds, if your opponent passes out, lay them on their back, lift their legs to 90 degrees, and move back and forth (shake) to put the blood back into the head."
Would you say Muay thai would be best if only one martial art is to be focused upon? It's pretty well rounded? I'd pick muay thai above all others if I could only focus on ONE martial art for SD. Of course true SD is about not getting into a fight in the first place and all that!
Sure. Muay thai has long strikes, medium strikes, close strikes, clinch work, and throws (from the clinch). That's not bad at all!
Is MMA considered its own art now?
If so I would go to a good MMA class above a Thai class if I wanted self defense it covers more ranges and adds more tools to your tool box
Anecdotally, there are gyms near me which have pure MMA classes. Typically the gym is focused on either striking or grappling.
E.g., a striking gym may offer 10-15 hours of striking (MMA striking technique) classes, 3-5 hours of grappling classes (BJJ with (or sometimes without) modifications for MMA, wrestling techniques, etc), and 5-10 hours of MMA classes.
So I think in some areas it is possible to find MMA as its own style... though the gyms I've looked at often have requirements for the MMA class. (E.g., a grappling focused gym may require a blue belt in BJJ before attending the MMA classes.)
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