Which internal martial art produces the most powerful explosive force and why?

Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by cpthindsight, Apr 21, 2015.

  1. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Jerryd if you are interested in different power generation i recommend you check out the power generation thread there is some good stuff on it. Also Fish of doom wrote an article on punching. Very good stuff.
  2. jerryd

    jerryd New Member

    Hi Tom,

    My searching skills are obviously deficient - I couldn't find the thread you mentioned. Are you allowed to post internal links on here? Or could you point me to the category title etc please?

    Here's a video explaining and demonstrating the difference between internal and external power - it goes into a bit more detail.


    Last edited: Oct 23, 2015
  3. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I think you are producing a false dichotomy with identifying them as being different - in the early stages possibly, but later on? Not at all

    Essentially they start at different ends of the spectrum but meet in the middle
  4. jerryd

    jerryd New Member

    So you're saying every form / movement has this kind of power generation - but just in varying degrees?

    How / where would you define the separating line of either end of the spectrum?

    I'm not arguing with your explanation, just trying to clarify my understanding (or misunderstanding as the case may be).

    I'm guessing these guys are just in the early stages then.

  5. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Essentially yes

    Using the two erroneous terms "external" and "internal" for simplicty

    External: Start with grosser movements that are focused on efficacy in combat which are subsequently refined over the years....start with application and as the practitioner progresses the technique improves to reduce the effort

    Internal: Start with the structure and emphasise precise alignment and movement.....gains application as the practitioner progresses

    I didn't take it as such :)

    I can see no reason why you would think that
  6. jerryd

    jerryd New Member

    Thanks for that Hannibal - my last comment was tongue-in-cheek :)
  7. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    It's been a low coffee morning!!
  8. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter


    Mike wishes to close someone's mouth ... over time, after flailing fists and arms about wildly in the attempt at closure, Mike happens upon a particular movement that seems to do the trick in a nice, timely fashion with little wasted arm flailing and after some refinement of body mechanics, he finds himself the proud owner of a devastating uppercut.


    After years spent in a semi-transcendental state bringing his soul to oneness with Qi via years of morning Tai Chi practice, Grasshopper discovers that not only can he Part the Wild Horse's Mane, he can also part the obnoxious man at the fish market from his consciousness with the same movement.

  9. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Well, I thought it was ... funny :banana:
  10. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member

    Well if it makes you feel any better, there was a fleeting moment when I almost smiled. ;)
  11. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Aw come - on, man...admit it; it had you in stitches !
  12. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

  13. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    And yours doesn't? :)

  14. 23rdwave

    23rdwave Valued Member

    The best punches use full six direction body power. Every part of the body contributes 1%.

  15. jadedragonalask

    jadedragonalask New Member

    Qi lays the foundation for Fa Jing. Tai Chi, Hsing-Yi and BeiShaolin are high on the list, which I have studied, as well as the Wide Circle of Kung from Grandmaster Joe Greenstein (the Mighty Atom).

    I bow a telephone pole in the middle with Internal Iron Palm at: Link deleted
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 16, 2016
  16. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    Did his mum give him that nickname?
  17. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    No,laddie-that's show business!

    He was a strongman born in the 1890s. Was also pretty short,hence "Atom".
  18. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Define your meaning of "ch'i" and how fa jin is dependent on it.
  19. jadedragonalask

    jadedragonalask New Member

    By Vic Boff

    Sunday, September 15th, 1979. That's a day that I shall always remember. The nation's attention was being focused on New York City. "New York is Book Country" was the great motto and title for that beautiful sunny fall day. The World famed Fifth Avenue from 57th to 47th Streets was closed to traffic as thousands of enthusiastic book seekers came to browse and search for their prepublications and potential best sellers along that elegant swatch of thoroughfare featuring 172 outdoor kiosks or booths.

    The big book of the day was proudly presented by the Viking press prior to it's national release. "The Mighty Atom" made its New York debut at this major cultural event.

    The author, Ed Spielman, famed screenwriter and the creator of the Emmy Award winning Kung Fu Television Series, assisted by Slim "The Hammer Man" Farman, the Atom's heir as the last of the great strongmen, treated the thousands of folks present to a super strongman show they would witness only once in a lifetime.

    On a stage on East 52nd Street between Fifth and Madison, which had been cordoned off to traffic, Ed Spielman narrated with eloquence and drama the day's Historical Strongman Show. For forty-five minutes, Slim "The Hammer Man" Farman gave one of the most amazing demonstrations of feats of Strength seldom seen in modern times.

    He exploded heavy steel chains with his hands and chest expansion, crushed shiny crowbar sized steel bars, drove spikes through two inch thick pine lumber with a swipe of his hand, broke his own world record in the leverage or hammer lift, bent a four foot long half inch thick steel bar over the bridge of his nose and all through the show, he bent over two hundred 6 inch 1/4 inch thick nails the difficult way, starting at shoulder level, and then bending downwards.

    The silence was golden. Such a physical demonstration of power this audience appreciated and applauded as they sensed the realization of this man "Slim's" physical and mental powers. A genuine strongman, thrilling and truly magnificent, as he performed one great feat after another.

    The last of the Great Strongmen (The Mighty Atom) returned in the person of Slim "The Hammer Man" Farman.

    Since the passing of the "Mighty Atom" in 1977, his protege Lawrence Slim "The Hammer Man" Farman and biographer Ed Spielman have teamed up to keep his memory and his teachings alive. "So," as one newspaper writer put it, "the legend of the 'Mighty Atom' lives on in the form of Slim "The Hammer Man."

    The older readers need no introduction to this amazing man. For those enthusiasts not so informed, I quote from the "Super Athletes" by David P. Willoughby, an international authority, writer and investigator in the field of physical strength and development, "Joe Greenstein (64 inches, 140 lbs.), of the Bronx, New York, was a sideshow and carnival strongman known as "The Mighty Atom." He also appeared in vaudeville, both in Europe and the United States, over a period of about 20 years. He was still able to perform many of his feats when past 80 years of age.

    He could 'break' by chest expansion as many as three chains placed together, of a size designated as No. 8 or No. 10 jack chain. This consisted of S-shaped links of the type that could be parted rather than broken. Greenstein could also bend an iron bar or a horseshoe with his teeth while one end of the bar was fixed (as in a vise.) The bar that he used for this purpose was usually one of 1/2 inch mild cold-rolled steel, 8 or 9 inches long. This size of bar he could also bend into a U shape with his hands. But Greenstein's most extraordinary and spectacular feat far transcended these chain breaking and bar-bending exhibitions. He could bite a nail in half! That he actually possessed the ability to do this he demonstrated on many different occasions. On one of these, about 1934, when he was 53 years of age, Greenstein walked into the well frequented New York gymnasium operated by Siegmund Klein and before the incredulous stares of Klein and about a dozen of his pupils who were working-out in the gym at the time, proceeded to bite in two a 20 penny nail that Klein, after satisfying himself that it was a strong and sound one-supplied. Klein's description of the act was as follows: 'Greenstein placed the nail in his mouth, clamping it between his molars and holding onto the head of the nail with his fingers. Then with tremendous pressure he bit into the nail, and one could hear the teeth crunching as though they were being ground. He then turned the nail a little and bit again. On the last bite he just bent the nail slightly-and presto, it was in half! . . . all of us checked his teeth to see that there were no special mouth pieces or caps over his teeth.' Greenstein was capable also of performing with a 25-cent coin the same feat of biting and breaking."

    During World War II, Mr. Greenstein unselfishly gave his time to Uncle Sam's Bond Drive. This modern day Samson did not only lecture but demonstrated the strength of his hair by pulling a truck loaded with passengers, and in this way he sold hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of bonds for Uncle Sam.

    It is a fact that this modern Samson's hair was so strong it could not be pulled out. One of the most astounding feats of strength ever seen was headlined by the Buffalo (New York) Evening Times on September 29th, 1928: "Mighty Atom -- Super Strong Man Pits Brawn Against Plane, Wins." At the Buffalo Airport before a large crowd of stunned witnesses, this human dynamo held his ground when the pilot increased the plane speed from 800 rpm for an approximate speed of 30 miles per hour to a speed of 1,600 rpm for a speed of 60 miles per hour. Without a doubt, the Atom was the strongest haired man in the world. "Believe It or Not" by Ripley had featured this superman many times over the years.

    To get back to his patriotism during World War II, The "Mighty Atom" helped, without any compensation, to recruit men for New York City's diminishing Police Force. He toured the city for two years giving demonstrations of jujitsu, judo, etc., to interest men in joining the civilian Police Force. He was highly commended by the Mayor and other officials of New York City.

    The Atom's years of experience as a wrestler and strongman in his early days made a superior man of him, mentally as well as physically. I shall never forget way back in 1936, when six giant longshoremen became disorderly and tried to interfere with one of his associates who was lecturing. "The Atom," after a dramatic fight, put all six men in the hospital. Many of the New York papers carried a front page story entitled "Little Giant Knocks Out Six" The story read, "He weighs but 148 pounds, and is only 5'4 1/2" tall. No wonder writers have termed The Mighty Atom as "The World's Biggest Little Man."

    The "Mighty Atom" performed all of his feats until the end of his life. A man who broke the time barrier with strength into the age of impossibility. In 1977, then well into his eighties, he performed a Martial Arts Show in Madison Square Gardens giving one of the most awesome exhibitions of strength performance that stunned thousands of sport fans present. He received a standing ovation.

    The "Atom" was featured several times in the "Believe It or Not" cartoons and the 1976 Guinness Book of World Records. Over the years top Government officials awarded him the Keys to 20 American Cities. He lectured and inspired thousands to better health and strength.

    Writers have often titled him as "The World's Biggest Little Man," "The World's Strongest Haired Man." A man whose hair could hold back roaring airplanes. He once was shot between the eyes with a .38 - 40 caliber revolver -- he walked out of the hospital the same day.

    All this was more amazing because he only measured five foot, four inches tall and weighed in at 145 pounds.

    Though these strange as it seems incidents sound like the creation of a fiction writer, they are but a few of the incredible but true documented facts in Ed Spielman's book "The Mighty Atom, Biography of A Superhuman, The Life and Times of Joseph L. Greenstein."

    On October 8th, 1977 another great chapter in the history of the Iron Game concluded with the passing of Joe Greenstein "The Mighty Atom." His shining star will be forever in the history of the Iron Game.


    Despite standing only 5'4" and weighing 140 pounds, Greenstein became one of the 20th century's leading strongmen. Some of his feats of strength included: •Driving 20 penny nails through a 2 1/2 inch board with his bare hands
    •Lying on a bed of nails while supporting a 14-man Dixieland band on his chest
    •Changing a tire on a car without any tools
    •Breaking as many as three chains by chest expansion
    •Bending an iron bar or horseshoe by holding one end with his teeth while one end of the bar was held fixed in a vise
    •Bending 1/2 inch steel bars with his hands
    •Biting nails in half with his teeth (he could also perform this feat with a 25-cent coin)
    •Resisting the pull of a plane with his hair. This feat was performed at the Buffalo Airport and was documented in the Buffalo Evening Times on September 29, 1928.

    Greenstein continued performing his strongman feats well into his eighties. He was featured several times in Ripley's Believe It Or Not and in the 1976 Guinness Book of World Records. Greenstein died on October 8, 1977.
    Joe Greenstein, From Wikipedia
  20. jadedragonalask

    jadedragonalask New Member

    Qi is built up, focused and then released quickly.

    What is Qi?

    Although there are many methods for flowing Qi as in Qigong, the best description is a life force we all have.
    When high in Qi we are healthy.
    When low in Qi we are sickly, need more sleep, and are more easily tired.
    Everybody alive has some Qi, since when it is gone you are dead.
    Some can focus their life force and combined body's motion, in fluid powerful dishcharges of power.

    Qi has all the properties of water except that of wetness, so this is the Shaolin Buddhist meditation that is usually concentrated on.
    Perhaps description is not the best word, since this entails aspects rather than a whole or essence; as a concept or non-visual image.

    Some concepts of water:
    • our bodies are over 80% water;
    • Holy Water which has symbolism of the human/divine living force,
    is no more than blessed salt water, all animals need salt to survive, and the origin of most of Earth's life comes from the salt-water ocean;
    • most areas of spirit or psychic phenomena are near misty areas;
    • many shamanic practices use a spray to connect, intitate, catalyze or charge a spirit, force or entity;
    • when wave theory was being developed and tested by physicts, most of the wave models were water or fluid based;
    • the Tao Te Ching entry on water, by Lao Tzu chapter 8,
    The highest good is like water.
    Water gives life to the ten thousand things and does not strive.
    It flows in places men reject and so is like the Tao.
    • Even though water is not hard or sharp, it cuts through rocks as the rivers make valleys and the rains; and ice can support tanks and stop bullets.

    Measuring external qi (EQ or wai qi) during qigong healing, has shown shown Qi had these physical effects:

    1. far-infrared,
    2. heat,
    3. micro-pressure detectors
    4. microwave radiation,
    5. significant increases in wavelength to above 10 mm,
    6. significant magnetic signals,
    7. sound frequency lower than 16 Hz from qigong healers at different acupuncture points.

    (Alternative Therapies, July/Aug 2004, VOL. 10, No.4; Analytic Review of External Qi Studies, page 38-41; An Analytic Review of Studies on Measuring Effects of External Qi in China by Kevin W Chen, Ph.D., M.P.H.,University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey; World Institute for Self Healing, Inc.).

    Much of the higher levels of the internal are a major qualitative leap from what was known and seen before.

    To make this leap, it is necessary to abandon one's old familiarities.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2016

Share This Page