Which internal martial art produces the most powerful explosive force and why?

Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by cpthindsight, Apr 21, 2015.

  1. cpthindsight

    cpthindsight Banned Banned

    So there are many styles and sub sets of those styles. All of them have excellent technique for producing fa-jing or refined explosive power.

    Some of the internal styles are Xingyiquan, T'ai chi ch'uan (Taijiquan), Baguazhang, Bak Mei and Bājíquán

    There are also sub set styles e.g. chen style T'ai Chi

    My question to you guys and its a difficult one, ill be surprised if anyone can/will answer it at all. My question is which of these arts produces the most explosive power, and why is that?
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2015
  2. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    The one that encourages the most weightlifting and good body mechanics.
  3. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    Different kinds of power are generated in each of the martial arts you listed.

    There's not a quantifiable answer because there are too many variables; the principle one being the skill of the individual practitioner.
  4. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member

    It's the one that teaches you to relax the most!

    Which might seem paradoxical if you've never done Taiji, but it's fundamentally true. Of course there are other things to learn besides relaxation, but if you can't make that fairly counter-intuitive 'leap' then everything else is going to be a bit of a waste of time really.
  5. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    What's so important about developing fa-jing or explosive power? What can you do with it?

    I ask this because "need" is what drives development. Who or which style actually needs fa-jing and why. The one with the most actual need is the one that will devote the most resources towards a break through in development.
  6. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member

    As far as I can see, some styles of Taiji put more emphasis on Fa Jing than others. Some styles put more emphasis on neutralisation, and very little emphasis on Fa Jing
  7. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Bagua because Wang!
  8. Dan93

    Dan93 Valued Member

    Ha was reading down this thread expecting you to post a Wang video clip!
  9. Dan93

    Dan93 Valued Member

    Seriously I think the OP is over complicating this, Fa Jing is simply as Chadderz hit on simply IMO and as I learned it correct bio mechanics on a strike, relaxed to the point of impact then whipped with explosive force with the correct weight behind the strike and this is not just a CMA concept. You will see it in a correctly performed Karate reverse punch or a Thai boxer throwing a kick. Nothing mystical about it
  10. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Yes,but the mechanics can/will vary depending on the particular system.

    As fa-jinnin' is a CMA thing,I've never seen a Karateka execute fa-jin.Or a Thai boxer. They don't use those "other" mechanics that many CMAs do.At least not to my knowledge.

    There's more to it then relaxation and whipping.
  11. Dan93

    Dan93 Valued Member

    From what I trained in my CMA there was more emphasis but it is imo the same process if you see a high level karate ka performing you will see direct comparisons. Trained for a time with one of Earl Montague's students along side my Jow Gar/Northern White Crane/Wing Chun who had a great emphasis on Fa Jin and it was no different to how power generation was taught to me in various JMA just emphasised more.
  12. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Starts in the toes, goes through the hips and then shoulders, lastly the arms and fist. All martial arts that have good punching mechanics have this in common.
  13. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    How about, starts with the waist, goes through the hips and shoulders, then the knee and elbow, then the fist and foot?
  14. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    That almost impossible from a standing position because you can move your hips without first changing the balance on your feet. Unless you have a video to show otherwise? :)
  15. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    So these JMas practiced opening/closing the joints/spine? Or expanding/contracting the tissue between the ribs? Or other such like thingies?

    That's the sort of thing I'm talking about.
  16. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Explosions don't happen in one direction. There is a force that goes into the ground at the same time as the force that goes through the fist through the target.

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r-0uFAJn0o"]Top 10 Best Uppercut Punches of all Time - YouTube[/ame]

    Okay, let's break it down:

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo2JxpcJ2BA"]Mike Tyson - The Uppercut! - YouTube[/ame]

    Lots of slow motion to look at. The feet do move, but that is to align the body properly. The first power movements are seen at the hip (this is done with a weight shift to the opposite side as the punching side but you won't see it unless you know what to look for because the weight shift isn't exaggerated). The shoulders move with the hips.

    The final power from the uppercut comes by throwing opposite elbow and hand upwards and back at the same time as your other hand throws the uppercut. Again, this is hard to see unless you know what to look for because it is not exaggerated when keeping your guard.

    The force upward is going through the ball of the foot right into the ground. Tyson literally leaves the ground as a result of this force.

    If this all started with the foot, then knee, then hips, then elbow, then fist... there is no explosion lifting him off the ground when the fist hits the target because the power would be a delayed effect from the ground. What we want is a violent, instantaneous explosion through the strike... not power delayed over time.
  17. cpthindsight

    cpthindsight Banned Banned

    for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction
  18. cpthindsight

    cpthindsight Banned Banned

    so any1 know?

    which one produces the most power? (there arnt different types of power, its just kinetic energy, different techniques have different feels to them but they are still just producing 1 thing power)

    well i presume internal martial arts have better technique for producing power than external martial arts thats what they are known for

    so which of the internal arts has the best power generation and why?
  19. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Going to post a little more for Chadderz.

    Chadderz, here is a video featuring the boxing cross:

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IvHE4-BS5E"]Top 10 Brutal Boxing Knockouts By The Cross aka Straight - YouTube[/ame]

    So going back to harmonies and power generation, here is what I am claiming is happening. FYI: I'm skipping the torque created at the waist to simplify the example by just calling it "opening the hips".
    1) Footwork to align the body
    2) Opening of the hips (this can be combined with the footwork in #1)
    3) Power comes from the hips and shoulders
    4) Power comes from the elbow and knee (as indicated with the straightening of the rear leg as the punching arm straightens, and by bending of the front leg as the non-punching arm bends).
    5) Power from the fist and ball of foot (this is actually palm and heel, but I simplify it. Some even say fingers and toes)
    6) Follow-through and recovery

    Some technique tips:
    - Opening the hips is key for power from the hips and shoulders. You can do this with footwork by performing a slide step (bring the rear foot more towards the front foot) then shuffle step with reverse straight punch (cross).

    - The weight shift is done with sinking the weight on the lead leg (requires bending the knee) while rising up and pivoting on the rear leg. A technique is to land flat with the lead foot. The transfer of energy is crisper when your foot lands flat.

    - Lead foot should point at opponent, rear foot points in the direction of the power line (in line with your reverse punch).

    - You should be punching slightly down through the target; however do not actually try to lean. A trick is to visualize striking slightly down into the target without actually leaning. Your body should make the adjustments without you having to think about leaning.
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2015
  20. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    The honest answer is that your question is a bit silly. Invariably it will always come down to the practitioner and not the style.there will be people who train CMA who can no doubt punch through cinder blocks with ease. There are also boxers who couldn't burst a grape.

    Hitting very hard is largely secondary to timing. What's the point in hitting hard if you they aren't there?

    I know it's not the answer you want, but it's the only honest answer there is.

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