What's wrong with High Kicks?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by pgm316, Feb 27, 2003.

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  1. Jim

    Jim New Member

    Is this another attempt to get me to post so everyone can flame me? I have a good mind to... Oh hang on, it's a Star Trekkie thing isn't it?... My Bad :eek:
  2. tai-gip

    tai-gip New Member

    i have tried mau thai, karate, tkd ,hapkido,kickboxing etc
    plus my first wing chun intstructor was also a kickboxing and tkd instructor very good with bon and kicks etc
    in my experiance the only time ive been able to either retreive my kick or defen from a caught leg position with actual reality is by kicking as above otherwise you are in deep doo doo but once again as i have said it may not work for everyone because style is a matter of choice not necasity which is what dictated me prefering to kick like that :D
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2003
  3. Jim

    Jim New Member

    Can I play? :D
    If you cook roast lamb at 200 degrees (celcius) for an hour and a half can you also cook it to the same level at 1200 degrees for fifteen minutes?
  4. Brad Ellin

    Brad Ellin Baba

    "based on 4 2 hour classes a week ive done approximately 67 years worth of training in my 27 years"

    After reading thru this thread, I have decided that either tai-gip's joints are made of rubber or his brain is. Haven't decided. But anyone that can get 67 years worth of training at age 27 certainly has something not functioning correctly. Unless he is using the Bud Abbott method of mathematics. Therefore I would be suspicious of any other thing that comes from his keyboard.

    The kick you describe would cause progressive damage to your joints over a short period of time. Maybe, you think you are doing that way. In reality you are making subtle shifts with your hips and legs and just don't notice it.

    Either that or you need to lay off the Fosters.
  5. tai-gip

    tai-gip New Member

    is anyone here to try new things or do we all no it all and just pick on others who suggest things we dont agree with .....

    How many people beleive you only get out what you put in therefore if you trained all your life and spent four years training full time everyday as well do you think that conversly you would learn the same as you would had you trained 4 x 2 hour classes a week for 67 years ? my point is only to say the i have put a lot of time into my training a lot of lot of time only because people who are older seem to think by virtue of being alive longer it means they know more
    perhaps there in fact may be something to what im talking about that could be benifical but if all you can do is pick holes in comments rather than having an open mind ... which isnt to say you have to agree.. just that what im saying may have some merit for others who have found similar situations

    Who here hasnt had a kick caught in training and known they basicaly had it been the street you would have been dead.. who hasnt wanted to be able to avoid this.... and i dont mean by removing kicking but by kicking in a manner which allows to stay alive all im suggesting is that kicking as ive descirebed allows to you remain defensive if your kick is court you are at a range to use hand strikes to suggest to your opponant that they let go or because of the balance and body positioning you can simply pull your leg back because you arnt stretching your body out
    and any one who trys to tell me you have balance in stretching can also tell me why there open or fighting stance dosnt have you in a stretched position...
  6. tai-gip

    tai-gip New Member

    ps i dont drink fosters i preffer a heiniken ... or a Jim Beam
    also my joints are fine and ive seen 80 year old people who kick like this who can still stretch well enough that when standing they can rest the top of there head on their feet
    Though to give merit Kurohana perhaps it is because they are conditioned to move like that since they where young where as you for example may have conditioned your body to kick in another way therefore this feels wrong as i said though i know it wont be right for everyone nothing is:)
  7. Brad Ellin

    Brad Ellin Baba

    I have an open mind. I have trained, sometimes fully and sometimes dabbled, in several different arts for as long as you've been alive. As for the technique you described, it is dangerous to the body to do it that way. As for picking holes in your comments, I suggest you read what you write before posting it to see if people are going to even understand it. It does no good to make statements that only you understand and that the rest of the people just scratch their heads and say "Huh?". Your comments and replies are combative rather than constructive and your mathematics and grammar and spelling are poor to say the least. Now, you may be quite good at you particular art, that is not in dispute. However the validity of your suggested technique is. There are several, in my opinion so take it for what it's worth, more effective counters for getting out of the situation you just described. Simplest one, keep the kicks low enough that they can't be caught. If you are close to your opponent and your leg is trapped, why kick? Knees and elbows at that range are far more effective. And would have more power.

    If you would like to prove the effectiveness of your kick, post a series of photos showing you perform it. Make a believer out of me.
  8. Brad Ellin

    Brad Ellin Baba

    "Though to give merit Kurohana perhaps it is because they are conditioned to move like that since they where young where as you for example may have conditioned your body to kick in another way therefore this feels wrong as i said though i know it wont be right for everyone nothing is"

    Good point. However, I still stand behind my original position. Show me pictures of this kick being performed. That best way to educate someone is to show proof of what you are trying to teach.
  9. tai-gip

    tai-gip New Member

    no pictures and to be honest there wont be because i preffer to remain anonymous i dont wont people decide im full of crap and wanting to see for themselves ... lol
    i used to be like that and im sure i ****ed a lot of people off always challanging instructors and so forth a least these days i can fit my head through the door

    And yeh you could use low kicks and most probably would it was just i found the things i did in sparring came out so i preffered to use a style of kicking that worked anywhere not just against a friend ad i appologise for any combative replies but if feels like the reverse is tru as well
    ps ive trained since i was 2 pretty much (not sure i learned much that young) so does that make us even in terms of training Kurohana? can we now have a mutural respect as opposed to the traditional this crazy kid is a loon with his off the planet suggestions i only am where i am because other people told me how otherwise we wouldnt need to go to school for anything i guess
    ps im realy hope im not seeming to be arrogant im just puting out there what ive seen heard and been told hard to know something you havnt heard about from somewhere... im passing on from somewhere...
  10. mikelw

    mikelw New Member

    Someone FINALLY said it. They don't work in real life! Go ahead and kick high if you want to be on the pavement bleeding. Think about what coudl be on the floor also. If you slip, you're dead.
  11. Jim

    Jim New Member

    TG, don't be worried about people coming to 'get' you. If you spend about 5 minutes looking on the internet you'll be able to find where I live (about 20 minutes from you) and after a bit of maths you could even work out what nights I'm likely to not be home or be home fast asleep.

    Posting actual name, pictures, etc. lends a lot more creedence to your posts/comments than just saying 'I've been training before I was born'. You remain a nameless/faceless pimple faced kid unless you take the 'leap of faith'.

    You always seem to claim that others don't have an 'open mind', where in fact you start off disagreeing with their post right away. Are you sure they haven't really seen what you can do and are giving their comments from the other side of your experience level? If you haven't taken this viewpoint then perhaps it's you who needs to expand your state of mind.

    Just a thought.
  12. tai-gip

    tai-gip New Member

    i shall follow your advise Jim and continue to expand my mind and thank you for perpetuation exaclty what im talking about
    what was your actual opinion on the style of kicking i was talking about because this post is called whats wrong with high kicks not whats wrong with tai gips posts ps how about i trudge along to one of your classes and then you could give feedback on my for
    no not a challange i dont want to spar you or any off the class just demonstrate my attitude to the arts
    Ps what was you opinion on the way to kick i was talking about
  13. tai-gip

    tai-gip New Member

    and its not that im worried people will come i know people will want to see for themselves in fact thats exactly what your saying but how does that detract from any value there may be in what im saying
    if i was in a wheelchair but still could advise on effective theory of an art the practicly worked would you listen...
    What im saying is what it is no matter who says it think about the message not the sender
  14. Jim

    Jim New Member

    Yep, but what I'm saying is perhaps they're already heard the message and have even tried the technique and still found a better technique to use. How would they communicate that to you without you still saying that they haven't experienced it yet?
  15. tai-gip

    tai-gip New Member

    something like...no tried it didnt work pretty much as Mark did
    or how about .... i didnt follow that what did you meen by...
    or even what the hell are you talking about
  16. Jim

    Jim New Member

    Ok, just wanted to be sure that you were practising what you were preaching. ;)
  17. Sporran

    Sporran Silverback.

    Sorry for the tardy reply Tai-Gip....
    Unfortunately I'm tremendously pedantic.
    The speed you refer to in E=mc2 is the square of the speed of light.

    How do you find this relevant to your analogy? Can you kick faster than light? If so, could you let me know how, cos that'd be like, way cool. :)

    I personally don't find any merit in your methods, but it's up to you to change your mind, or not. Based on sound biomechanical principles (such as basic anatomy), your method is not optimal for either force production or long term practice.

    Mind you, if you're kicking at the square of the speed of light, who needs force :) :) :)
  18. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Just to save time, I'll be replying to every one of your posts with;

    'what the hell are you talking about' :D
  19. Mark Davies

    Mark Davies Valued Member

    Well I HATE to blow my own trumpet but:D

    If your any bloody good at kicking your gonna set it up so that your leg DOESN'T get caught. Have any of you 'Kicking doesn't work' dudes EVER thought that maybe someone somewhere is actually as good at leg technique as you are obviously superhumanly good with your hands.
    I made it my lifes mission to free fight with every style I could, not just 'mates', & when we first started TKD in North East Scotland at the beginning of the 80's trust me we got challenges left right & centre. Guess what, I've NEVER been swept or trapped, & the sparring wasn't the push me shove you crud you see these days!
    I've pressure tested my leg techniques in the real world as well, & not just on the doors, in more serious situations than that! (though Tayside Police have a lovely bit of video of me laying out a ned with a jumping back kick, I'm friends with the local inspector who is also a Martial Artist & let me see it). So your comments of 'try it in the street & you'll lie bleeding on the pavement' don't wash. I've had more 'real' encounters than I'd wish on anyone.
    Long & the short of it is, before you knock it, REALLY try to get into it! Also, just because someone has TaeKwon-Do across their back DOES NOT mean that they're a good kicker, I know plenty of TKD folk who couldn't kick the skin off a rice pudding & have less power than a kittens fart.
    Sorry for the rant Andy, must be the PMT:D
  20. tai-gip

    tai-gip New Member

    ok firstly bigrich that theory suggests that speed controls or has an effect on energy/power .. thats all i was using it to demonstrate
    And secondly Andy love your work ..:D :p

    Lastly Mark you would have to agree that a leg has further to travel (this is after all a post about high kicks) than an arm/hand therefore if someone can catch your arm they would have a cup of tea while waiting for a good pivot hip twist snap round kick...
    Being that martial arts is about defense you can get away with almost anything because the attacker is moving and out of position in attack....im sure everyone has noticed that when you move first on someone as good as you they seem to get you hence it being a self defence every attack leaves the attacker vunerable somewhere to something
    The point of kicking how i suggest is that it gives less openings and if the other guy is any good less time to react to your movements ...also a shock when you are only a forearm away and while you punch or strike to the head/body (pick a spot!) you kick them in the head without shifting for position without leaning to develope the kick just snapping it right out. Add to that if you can kick high like that your low kicks would be devestating and pretty much unreadable ...anyone whos done chi sao in wing chun knows you can feel the person move to kick but kicking like this pretty much eliminates telltale signals of body weight transferance or position change the tell the person defending to smack you one while you try to kick
    by the way i love kicks i just dont like getting smacked in the nuts trying them
    and stir Andy cause most wing chun guys dont know how to defend against kicks properly because they arnt shown how to do them above the waist and in my opinion in order to properly defend you need to know how something can come at you :Angel:

    Ps im hoping Andy dosnt take offence cause i know hes done other things but i wonder his thoughts on my last comment
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2003
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