Ha ha ha ha! I think if you took a look at the how much MMA is looking to WWE for ideas on how to promote the sport you'd see the similarities. Take a look at the ring/cage entrances, the encouragement of smack-talking, shared ring announcers and shared promotionals (even to production of MMA action figures by WWE), similarities in PPV promotions, clothing lines, reality shows, and so on and you'll see that MMA, especially UFC looks to the very lucrative and successful WWE for ideas on how to market the sport. And, it makes senese considering that both share the same demographics (males 18-35). So in other words you aren't "tough enough to put up in the ring" and therefore by your own logic in your opinion you yourself "need to save their fantasies of bad Jean-Claude Van Damme flicks for the discount DVD aisle". As for your rules being "sane", well that's a matter of opinion. I'd have to concede that they don't sound too bad... as I said the current rules seem to be a decent compromise between fighter safety and fan desires. When (If) you do your MMA classes, I'll be happy to watch your matches and honestly will be interested in reading your opinions. I know you offer a good persepctive on Kung fu and on BJJ based on your experiences so far. I watched a couple of your BJJ matches and they were good, there's no shame in losing tough matches (although your WWE-esque argument of "I didn't tap" after doing the palm jackhammer in the choke would fit in with some WWE programs ) However, in the meantime if you are trying to insinuate that a few years of Kung-fu and a bit of BJJ training and a few matches on the rolled out mats of Amish Heights High School Gym makes you any more "MMA" than anyone else here, I'll just laugh at you. Uh-oh... if I claimed to be "so knowledgable about MMA" I have to apologize (maybe you can point me to a quote of mine claiming this). My knowledge of MMA isn't really that deep : as a spectator I've watched off and on back to UFC I (but missed a few here and there) as well as a few KOTCs and PRIDEs, and a few seasons of TUF. So along those lines I'd say my opinions as a spectator should be as valid as most other spectators. (Unfortunately, I don't own a "Tapout" or "Cagefighter" shirt but with the sheer amounts available at Walmart next to the WWE shirts, I might get one someday on "clearance") As a fighter, I have to say I don't have much (if any) MMA experience. I've done some full contact TKD, a lot of self defense training, some training with the local MMA/NHB instructor and students, many seminars in various arts, and even a clinic with Dan Severn (and I met Frank Shamrock twice). So I'd say I have a familiarity with the martial arts and some experience with a few MMA concepts but no "cage experience". That's probably why my opinions on this thread are more from a spectator's view. Now, even if I come across as a "clueless dullard" (nice choice of words by the way), you come across as a pompous and arrogant dabbler in a martial arts with a wannabe-MMA attitude because you left your Kung Fu school after fighting over the name and have done some white belt BJJ and are "going to start MMA classes later this year". Sounds like you might be about as knowledgeable as any other spectator...
Go check out my comments in various threads. It's the demographic which, I am the least impressed with, to be quite frank. The ref actually gave me props for standing up for myself, thank you very much. We spent a lot of time afterwards talking about his decision, and the next time a former wrestler attempts a guillotine, I know what to do to avoid the sitch. It was a great learning experience. What I'm stating outright is that there is a lot of stupidity appearing in this thread ("insinuation" implies being subtle, and I'm anything but). I think that I have a better grasp of reality than a lot of people posting in this thread who are going with all the silly "let's make this a street fight" bs. And just to be the better person, I'll respond to your last comments thusly: my matches were in Wildwood New Jersey; Pittsburgh, PA with the PABJJF; and Morganville, NJ, an inhouse RGDA Association tourney. My opponents are competitors from all over the country and come from schools and associations which have sent students to and medaled at Mundials and the Pan-American Games. So if you think that because I live in Amish country me and my classmates are a bunch of dumb hicks, you're sorely mistaken, Thomas. But if you're really not that knowledgable, how about you stop offering opinions? I don't really care for the TUF wanna-be opinion, either. Most of them wouldn't kow a kimura from a kimono. That's painfully obvious. Not that I owe you of all people any explanation, but I left because I blew out my knees doing utterly useless and impractical techniques and non-fitness trainer approved drills which were antiquated and out of date when my grandmother was a kid back in 1920. I learned a few good moves, but learned a lot of useless "too deadly for the world" stuff, so the injuries gave me time to think about what I wanted from an MA, and that wasn't it. The "name issue" was all my Sifu and the Grandmaster, and last time I checked, I never talked openly about that on this forum as it was a private in-house matter. So, since you are clueless about that situation unless you suddenly started to study under Grandmaster Parker down in North Carolina, <<snipped>>
*ahem* If we're quite done with this, let's get back to the relevant subject - ie, how you would adjust the current MMA rules/ judging criteria and/ or how awesome I am Thanks
Yes, Sir. I reiterate my earlier point. The juding has to change before anything else. Having boxing judges scoring an MMA bout is like having a syncronized swimming judge reffing the Superbowl. CLUELESS. Until the various state athletic commissions are willing to follow New Jersey's fine example and create a separate training program for MMA judges a lot of this becomes irrelevant. And Sever is King. All hail Sever.
So even though you have no MMA experience, your opinion is more valid because...... ? Well, last time I checked there wasn't any sort of requirements to post in any forum here (aside from registration). In fact I think that point came up pretty clearly in the recent Ninjutsu events ... I believe the MAP "official" view was that as long as people follow the TOS, they can post where they want to. If you don't like what I post, ignore me. (bold face added - Thomas) Ummm... could you clarify what the initials mean, I don't do a lot of textspeak or whatever it is? You're awesome and do fine work around here. As far as judging criteria goes, I think the 10 point must system needs to be changed. Honestly, I think the idea I mentioned earlier of 2 timed rounds and then a third unlimited time round would encourage the athletes to "finish" the match (or tire them out to where it will be finished one way or another). Alternatively, you could do it with the first 2 rounds as 5 minutes long and a 15 minute long 3rd round... if there is no KO, TKO, or Submission (verbal or tap), then declare a draw. The threat of going to a draw because you can't "finish" might encourage the athletes to work at a faster pace and finish the match. This would make it exciting for fans, make money for the owners, and provide incentive for the athletes to fight "harder" if they need to.
I love you guys. Seriously. After a few beers, getting on this forum is better than reality tv. And now that I dont have cable, really all that i have. <3 :love: <3
*Domino ignoring stuff Sever specificaly said to let go of. You do remember how the early PRIDE's went down with no time limits on the rounds, right? If not, let me remind you... PRIDE 1, top fight of the card. An hour of Lay and Pray. Not even good grappling, just stand up, clinch, takedown, then fifteen to twenty minutes of lay and pray. There's a reason PRIDE imposed time limits.
Yes, and that fits in with my point from the "spectator's" point of view. Shelling out how many $$$$ to go and see a live event or (like I do) shelling out $40 or so to watch a PPV on TV, I don't want to see some boring fight that goes for 3 five minute rounds (or 5 five minute rounds) with no clear KO or submission. Time limits are good unless the competitors use the limits to stretch out a decision and avoid fighting. How to fix that? I don't know and it seems like the major MMA groups have to balance that in when they make the rules. On one hand, I hate it when the competitors get stood back up... I'd rather see them continue on the ground and use their grappling skills, but at the same time I want to see the action so if they are just "laying and praying" I don't mind seeing them stood up. But again, if the UFC (and others) are going to hype "as real as it gets", they need to find the right balance of fan appreciation, fighter protection, and excitement. Adding in too many rules takes away from the perceived "realness" and leads to athletes sometime manipulating the rules to win instead of physically beating their opponent. Could a change in the length of the rounds make the fights better by getting the guys tired and more apt to succumb to a KO or submission? But then would that lead to more injuries? Penalize non-finishers at the end of the time limit with a draw? But would this make the competitor who knows he's outclassed avoid to get a draw instead of a loss? I don't know.
hi tom now this is just my opinion.....but believe it or not alot of the no holds barred rules sets. while it may seem like it wouls liven up the action and kinda make a human **** fight type thing......believe it or not it wont. alot of the rules were made to speed up the action. for example....fighters are humans....merely humans.....a human being can only go so hard for so long....for example even ollimipc sprinters can only go at top speed for about 6 seconds. and if you extend to no timelimit this is what happens.....guys go into distince runner mode.....paceing themselves for the long haul also it makes it a grapplers game....which most fans dont want to see...thye want to see someone pummel someone else. also headbutts make mma just a wrestlers game...the better wrestler wins.
I'm really thinking we're going to continue to be on different pages. I'm looking at this from the fighters' point of view, and you're not. Let's ignore Dana White's bull for a minute and stop harping on this whole "as real as it gets" crap, which we all know is for marketing purposes, which ain't the purpose of this thread. This is on how to make MMA "better" in our own opinoons, not how to turn it into a human cockfight.
I'm not sure you really read my previous posts. It would almost seem that as far as "rules" go, we are on a similar page. You never mentioned any issue with the current rules (the judging, weight classes, and women's divisions yes, but not the rules). I am in favor of keeping the restrictions on eye gouges/groin shots/etc and in allowing most strikes and submissions. About the only thing I would change as far as rules go would be allow knees to a downed opponent. I think if you are going to allow knees, allow them anytime. I think for the most part the current rules keep the competitors safe while allowing for more attacks. I actually agree with you that the judging system is a problem. Using whatever judges they have been doesn't really work. Unless MMA can figure out a way to get a uniform training and certification for all 50 states (and International judges) into place and provide some means of training people (and paying them) to be MMA judges, it's going to be difficult. Perhaps they should look to other martial sports groups and see how they do it. Taekwondo grew a large number of decent judges for use around the world and who generlaly follow the same criteria (it's nowhere near perfect but better than what MMA has now). Personally, I would rather see matches end with a KO or submission instead of a decision but I am not sure how that can be fixed. My suggestions would be to somehow tinker with the time or number of rounds. Or, maybe do like Dana White does on TUF and offer a cash bounty for the type of win - maybe like a Huge purse for a KO or submission, small purse for win by decision or draw, and tiny purse for a loss. That's a short term idea though. I am all for protecting the fighters, allowing them the greatest freedom to compete in relative safety and to make the matches exciting for the $$$$$-paying fans (of which I am one). The first post on the topic said "So anyway that's my imaginary rules for an organization that's never going to exist. Again, this is mostly for fun. I'm interested in seeing what other people come up with." so I wouldn't put too much seriousness into the topic. I don't think anyone really specified in what direction the topic should go Anyway, as far as some non-MMAers like us, I highly doubt our opinion matters much beyond how much money we spend on PPVs and merchandise so don't be deluded into thinking our petty disagreements have any meaning in the broader terms of things.
no matter what the ruleset is as time goes on you see more and more decitions.....thats cause as a sport matures you see more and more people on a similar skill level...so less mismatches and less knockouts not just fighting but all comps highschool wrestling has alot of pins olympic wrestling you see alot of 3 -2 play chess at the local park and you see alot of check mates....watch the grandmasters and you see alot of draws. i could find more examples but you see the point
Dana White DOES offer bonuses for that stuff. Frank Mir took home $85K for his fight with Lesnar, plus an additional $60K for "submission of the night". As for changing the purses based on performance in the fight, not gonna happen. No way will the fighters agree to a fight contract with so many conditions. Nor will their managers or lawyers.
