One of my biggest concerns about starting aikido is the over-compliance that some have said is rampant in the schools that teach it. What do I do if the class I'll be attending is one of those? Is it worth it to stay and learn what I can? Should I try to convince the instructor to be more "martial" in his teachings? Or is it just not worth it at all?
I think going into a school and trying to change the teacher 's methods might be viewed as a little rude. I would treat it like you would any other service - go in, see if what's on offer is to your taste and if you feel you could take away anything that you would find useful. If not, move on elsewhere.
It depends on why you want to study Aikido. Many today seem to view Aikido as a vehicle for self transformation and betterment, not so much a martial art. I think you'd be better off studying something other than Aikido if you're looking for something very marital to study, your chances of finding an Aikido dojo with a martial focus is pretty slim. I think staying and trying to convince the instructor to be more martial would be a waste of time, and disrepectfull coming from a new student.
If I - run faster than you, you will never be able to hit me. - lie down on the ground, you will never be able to throw me. A full resistence opponent is not the best opponent that can help you to develop your skill. When you touch your opponent, your opponent sits down all the way to the ground (full resistence), you will never be able to develop your "hip throw". - "Compliance" is the only way to develop your "solo" technique. - "Full resistence" is the only way to develop your "combo" technique.
I agree with this a lot. A newbie should not and likely will not be training against full resistance. Someone who's never done a technique before won't be able to make it work on a fully resistant opponent on the first try. Resistance, I think, is something that increases over time with experience and confidence.
if the akido class is not "martial" enough go do judo, although if it were me id skip out the middle man and go straight to the judo class, same with crap jiu jitsu classes, its almost as if someone did all the hardwork for us.
what a nonsense, you speak as if the two are mutually exclusive and adding resistance means beating the beginner up with all you have, any decent martial arts class has you doing both from the first few lesson's. Timing and fluidity of motion can not be learnt effectively without going against someone who is too at least some degree moving with there own intentions just as much as muscle memory and learning the basic movements can not be properly developed without drilling on a compliant partner.
Huh? If you look at the quotes you used both people are talking about FULL resistance. You seem to be talking something more to do with graduated resistance.
You are mixing skill "development" and skill "testing". I was talking about skill "development" only. You have to develop your skill 1st before you can test it. If your "hip throw" can't even throw a full compliance opponent, your "hip throw" will not be able to work on a full resistence opponent. When you apply a "hip throw" and your opponent resists (such as sink down), if you still try to use your "hip throw", you are using force against force. Instead, you should borrow your opponent's resistence and help him to sink down even more. That's the "combo" skill development that I was talking about. Without "resistence", you will have no force to borrow, and you cannot develop different directions throwing/locking combo. Please notice the "forward and backward throwing combo" in this clip. Without resistence, the backward throwing won't be possible. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56XRtBAOaps"]sc5 - YouTube[/ame]
I've been there myself. I tried two classes at a particular aikido dojo where, to my mind, it was way too fluffy. I emailed the instructor to say thank you, but I won't be coming back, blah blah, polite polite, good-bye. And I found somewhere else to train. I suggest you do the same for any school that doesn't meet your needs. If your town doesn't offer the right type of aikido, look for (a) Jap JJ or aiki-jujitsu, (b) BJJ, (c) judo, (d) hapkido, (e) escrima, (f) kendo, or (g) wado-ryu karate. In different ways, each of these other arts is similar enough to aikido that it might have what you want.
well then haven't they failed to address the ops question, being that he/she has herd that many akido classes never reach anything like what could be called full resistance ? a rumour I personally wouldn't be quick to say is untrue. rereading those quotes its actually as if they are addressing someone with the opposite problem, being worried that they are about to start a class where immediate and full resistance is a possibility and there response is to say that the akido approach is more sensible.
In which case, if you want to learn aikido, then you have your answer. That's where you've got to train!
Vajrayana you seem to have started with ageneral question and then in your last post talked about a specific dojo. Maybe it would have been better to ask what people think of that particular school. Also don't mistake apparent compliance for a lack of "martialness" . I remember being quite indignant at the passage in "Angry White Pyjamas" which dismissed the second Doshu's Aikido abilities (especially having been on the end of his Aikido). Often Aikido looks more compliant than it is - especially at a high level. In saying that there is a lot of bad "fluffy" Aikido out there, its up to you to judge what's suitable for you.
Go along to the class and give it a go, then if you decide it's not for you then at least you've based your decision on actually experiencing the class and not just on watching. philipsmith, I totally agree with you about Angry White Pyjamas, its one of my favourite books but when he puts down all the other aikido as being rubbish it did make me think he had been fed a line by his instructors bigging up their style over others.
