What makes jujitsu effective

Discussion in 'Ju Jitsu' started by Katsu, Sep 29, 2012.

  1. Katsu

    Katsu Banned Banned

    Just a question what makes jujitsu such an effective fighting art what qualities does somebody starting need flexibility,fitness wise etc. And what are it's weaknesses in a real life confrontation. I know it depends on what style you learn who who you learn with. I was told off my old boss 3rd dan traditional jujitsu it lacks stand up fighting skills someone learning would not do any harm learning boxing or kick boxing as well.

    Your thoughts thanks
     
  2. slasha

    slasha Banned Banned

    Depends

    It depends entirely on the style. Some teach almost karate style khion and pad work, some use kick boxing style strikes, some styles will try kicking punching then resort to grappeling, some will use it to cover the distance to grab, some even do board and brick breaking.
    Where some are just grapplers who use strikes (atemi) to distract and manover you.
     
  3. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    AFAIK the only constant is a solid repertoire of throws. How much or what sort of striking, groundwork or standing jointlocks are present will depend entirely upon the school. Some will be very aikido-like, some will resemble judo more, some will be hard to distinguish from some karate.
     
  4. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    What makes any system "effective"? The answer is simple: solid mechanics combined with good training practices aiming towards application within the context of the art... the question really ends up being, "is the context that this art works in the same context that I want to get good in?"

    When it comes to jujutsu, the first thing to ask, as slasha suggested, is to determine what you're meaning by "jujutsu". Are you meaning a classical, Koryu form of jujutsu? Or a more eclectic, often Western, interpretation, more a semi-traditional quasi karate/judo hybrid? Or are you talking about Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, which is really the only one that the description of lacking stand up could apply to, as most Japanese systems are predominantly stand up, with little ground work? I'd also disagree with Kurtka Jerker to a degree there as well... I know a number of Jujutsu systems that don't have much in the way of throwing methods, but do have a lot of standing joint locks and striking methods.

    So, again, it depends. Which are you asking about?
     
  5. Alansmurf

    Alansmurf Aspire to Inspire before you Expire Supporter

    Practice Practiceand a bit more practice ..........

    And a good school with knowledgeable instructors....


    Smurf
     
    macker likes this.
  6. Katsu

    Katsu Banned Banned

    So in a real world confrontation strictly to defend yourself a good balance of standup and ground skills seems obvious am I wrong ? I understand the last place to be in confrontation is the ground Is that correct ?
     
  7. aikiMac

    aikiMac "BJJ Over 40" club member Moderator Supporter

    Beautiful, man.


    As to the first: ground skills are not necessarily necessary. My good buddy from Arksansas grew up fighting all the time. It was all stand-up striking. He's a competent boxer. My other good buddy grew up in the "ghetto" of a Los Angeles suburb. He has never had any interest in wrestling on the ground. It's all kickboxing and wing chun for him. I have sincere absolute respect for wrestling and BJJ, but at the same time, I put almost all of my martial arts training in stand-up, because I don't see myself ever getting into a wrestling match "in the str33t."

    As to the second question: Yes. That is the reason my friends did not wrestle in their street fights.
     
  8. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    Your old boss was right, learning kick boxing, boxing and jujutsu is better than just learning jujutsu. Adding pottery to the mix is also beneficial.

    Learning is good.
     
  9. Katsu

    Katsu Banned Banned

    Sorry in this post I meant the last place you would want to be is the ground in real life not in a controlled situation
     
  10. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    Why don't you elaborate as to why you think this is? It would help you internalize the knowledge and can be expanded upon, rather than just regurgitation of what someone else told you, confirmed by someone different.
     
  11. Jumonkan

    Jumonkan Valued Member

    Katsu

    Without going into the statements that often get made about "60% of fights go to the ground".

    It depends on the situation. If you are in a bar brawl where there could be more than one person the ground is the last place I want to be. "IF" I'm sure that it's only one person I would have to contend with then Ne waza (ground work) is nothing to be afraid of. Lastly it really comes down to you are you comfortable on your back and wrestling or are you more comfortable staying on your feet. I practice and teach my students to be well rounded, practice all ranges; striking, throwing and grappling. You will naturally have one area you excel at and that is the area you should always try to stay in. :)


    James
     
  12. Katsu

    Katsu Banned Banned

    I am not a martial artist although I would like to learn jujitsu at some point yes you are right I was always told off martial artist I know down the gym that in a real world confrontation the ground is where you don't wan't to be. You'll get your head kicked in by their mates and you want to be on your feet so any other attackers can be fought off.

    your thoughts
     
  13. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Out of interest:
    I wonder how many of those fights involved standup grappling... It's something that gets neglected in these SD type threads but it is the major co
    Ponent of wrestling that seems handy in SD.
     
  14. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    My thoughts are that you need to be aware of the bigger picture.

    It is the environment that matters. EG if the ground is covered in dirty syringes then you don't want to be there, if you are alone against a big group you don't want to be there.

    But if you walk into a situation where a guy who is clearly bigger (taller, reach etc) than you is swinging wildly at a group of people who are not his buddies (eg a guy going crazy in a school classroom filled with young kids and a safe looking teacher) then the ground is good for you, providing you know how to move on the ground.

    The ground is easier to restrain someone on with pins/pain compliance and to finish chokes, so in that case its best to restrain him and keep things safe.

    Complete fighting skills are better than just one or the other, the very least you learn from ground fighting is how to get up again (imagine a heavy guy sitting on your chest pounding you in the face and his mates running in to kick) if you know ground fighting you know how to get up from there rather than lay there squirming as you get knocked out.
     
  15. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    But mattt, didn't you know that there's a magic ground button, that as soon as you take an oPponent to the ground, suddenly several enemies appear and the ground turns to lava.
     
  16. Katsu

    Katsu Banned Banned

    Yeah but your not going to find many situations with just you and lone attacker and say you get him to ground alot of people feel like they should get involved and not for the right reasons. Just makes no sense I don't' think I have read one book that says go to the ground in a confrontation or spoken to one martial artist that says it is a good idea in the real world. My old boss 3rd dan traditional jujitsu told me better to keep on your feet and do stand up jujitsu he also did boxing and kickboxing and competed in mma.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2012
  17. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter


    This^. The people who learn grappling/ground fighting as a self defence strategy do it, not to take the fight to the ground, but so that if they find themselves on the ground they know what to do to enable them to survive and get up from the ground. You never know if you're going to fall over in a fight, slip on a wet floor, be tripped up or over-balanced by a bigger opponent. That is why you need to have ground fighting skills, not because as soon as someone looks at you in a threatening manner you pull guard and drop to the floor!
     
  18. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Your not gonna find many situations when several people attack you unless You look for them an I don't know too many people that can actually beat several opponents at once except frank dux.

    Plus there's other things in the arsenal than just ground fighting such as throws and you'd be surprised how quickly the transition from standing to ground to Back again is when you understand what youre doing.
     
  19. Jumonkan

    Jumonkan Valued Member

    attacks

    I'm wondering why your so worried about being attacked. You need both ground work and striking, I thought competitions like the UFC etc. made that clear long ago. That is the strength of Jujutsu, is when taught with attention to being practical it has or should have a good mix of standing and ground techniques. Thats how I teach it any way. You could go back and forth for 50 pages with the "what if". I always tell my students you can't train for every eventuality but you can train your reflexes to react to a changing dynamic situation. So stop thinking about training and just do it already. :D
     
  20. Katsu

    Katsu Banned Banned

    Well said I got the Gi just doing research at the moment
     

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