What is Lau Gar Kung fu?

Discussion in 'Kung Fu' started by Rataca100, Feb 26, 2017.

  1. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    I never used statistics just an observation until you said that wasn't enough to go on? So are you arguing with yourself now?

    How's this, since for the fight to go to the ground you will, outside of a trip fall or knockdown need to engage in some form of clinch, and since not all take-down attempts are successful it is more likely you will in an altercation find yourself in a clinch situation than on the ground, therefore a better idea to train more time in the clinch than ground fighting
    Dead_pool and axelb like this.
  2. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Let's forget it. You haven't understood my point. No biggie, let's move on. You weighed in during a conversation about the use of statistics (among other subjects). I honestly don't know how to make my first post clearer, so I'll bow out by quoting myself. I can't be bothered spending days arguing in circles with you over nothing again.

    If you want to turn that into me somehow trying to deny reality, then have at it and have fun :)
  3. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    I'd actually point out I mentioned fighting and the street in my original post .not self defence, not rape prevention not a mugging, so these stats looking at street fighting corelate to that, I never said nor implied it was a blanket statement about how everyone should train, just that if you were worried about getting into a fight you might want to train clinch work, this was backed up by the study of street fights I agree its not a broad study but its better than nothing and looks at what I mentioned fights in the street

    Anyway I agree we should stop here
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
    David Harrison likes this.
  4. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    I'm going to say my peace and leave this forum 'for good'

    I used to do Lau Gar based kickboxing at 2 different clubs and compete on the IMAO circuit. I got to blue belt and was still put in novices even after 2 years worth of training. I also changed clubs but still didn't progress past novice category. This was in pointfighting and light continuos and I trained at Peak Kickboxing Hampshire and Ludgershall Elite.

    When I did Chinese kickboxing at Southampton Solent University we didn't do pointfighting and my mate Oliver Seidel won bronze (2 fights) at the National Universities Kickboxing Championship in 2010 in above-waist light continuos. Marine MaLan and Yana Titova both also won silver in women's (the advanced category for Yana allowed leg kicks). The real stand out was Ricardo 'The Rocket' Co who won gold and then 2 years later became WAKO Full Contact British Champion and 2 years after became WAKO Europe K-1 Bronze Medallist. They made rapid improvements BECAUSE they didn't do pointfighting.

    My so-called friend from Hong Kong is a black belt in Goju Ryu and never heard of Lau Gar until I sent him a link. He himself did karate kumite and said pointfighting gives real bad habits. Here's him vs Oli

    My friendship with him was strained because the IMAO circuit was disorganised and made him wait all day to fight only to say it was 'too hot' so he couldn't fight.

    Now, my alleged 'best friends' are (or were) Dave Thomas and Chris Higgins and both were on WKA Team England for point-fighting. Chris also has bronze and silver at the WAKO for pointfighting but neither man won a national full contact title unless you count Dave's ICO world title but afaik it was only 1 fight. Chris' full contact record is 2-8.

    I regret not training at Solent University more because the pointfighting from Lau Gar based clubs was counterproductive. See Chris Higgins (90kg, 6'4") vs Ricardo 'The Rocket' Co (57kg, 5'4"); Ricardo trained only for 12-15 months compared to Chris' 3 years.

  5. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    So what's your point exactly?
  6. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    I seriously doubt he has one.

    Unless it's a point to show that people who train for/ with certain rulesets would lose against other people who train for/ with different rulesets.
    Which I don't find shocking or even surprising at all.
  7. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    He cannot cope with pressure and its the systems fault

    Thats all I keep seeing anyway
  8. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    If you dislike point fighting and light continuous then don't do them. I don't.

    If you don't like getting smacked in the face then either get smacked in the face more (until it happens less) or stick to grappling.

    I don't know what point those videos were meant to service but nobody in them seemed very good imo. That Goju guy was aweful.
    axelb and Dead_pool like this.
  9. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Ronki, you seem all caught up in the past. Bitter about some things that you feel unfairly happened to you and and you spend so much of your energy/ time/ posts/ etc. caught up in that. This is the overwhelming impression I get from your posts anyways. Let it go! My $.02 is that you should look forward, not back so much. Clear the negative past out to make room for more positives in your training going forward.

    And once again, don't worry about who does what training so much. Worry about your own training. Do what you like, let others do what they like. Learn the way works best for you, and allow that others learn practicing different ways. Your way is not everyone else's path. It doesn't invalidate others experiences.
  10. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    I can't sleep, so I just as well can run through the older posts of this thread.
    And I noticed, that I really do agree with Hannibal here - so much... either dumbness or wanted and honed blindness, it's creepy.

    I don't understand that you don't get the idea, that styles with different rules train differently and work with these rules.
    Shocking - a Judoka wouldn't learn to kick and box!

    And stop pretending that a sports event is the same as a street fight.
    MMA might be closer than Judo or whatever, but it's still not the same.
    And SD is something different again.

    Or maybe Lau Gar isn't MMA.
    Or maybe it still depends on the club, how much cross-training in necessary.
    Or maybe the people just enjoy training something else.

    First: Bashing is a stupid thing alone, and I think it's not too welcome here.

    Secondly: In what world could a style ruin friendships?!
    That was your or your friends problem or "fault", not the styles.
    Lau Gar didn't come along, thinking: Now, I will destroy friendships!
    Such rubbish.

    Sounds more like a problem from your friend, doesn't it?

    So they have techniques that look similar or are the same?
    Big deal!

    You know, people only have two arms, two legs, two hands, that only work in a certain way; well, most people do anyway.

    I found several techniques in Hapkido, Aikido, JJJ, Karate, and Judo - might be, because several techniques are just everywhere, because they're so basic that it just would happen.
    There are only so many way you can choke a person or lock an elbow...
    You can't invent something new; most new things today aren't entirely new locks themselves, for example, but more the ways how to get to these locks.

    Crazy idea, I know, but maybe because there are people with different tastes and interests? Who want to train only one of these things?
    I know, it's totally nuts the idea!

    It's the same everywhere with most sport arts.
    Let every other association host a competition and give out titles and it happens.
    When you let yourself blind by the fact, that someone calls himself European champion without checking out, what that means in that moment, it's your own fault.

    My teacher is World or European champion in JJ; I don't know which, because even he didn't remember.
    When telling me that he laughed his behind off, because he only had one fight and won that.
    He never even mentions that, when not asked, because it means nothing.
    But if he were to tell you that and you automatically think he must a beast and unbeatable, it's not his fault but your.
    Especially if you are aware that there are hundreds of titles out.

    Then do that and stop complaining and whining.
    problem solved.

    You might want to check if you really know grappling and striking, if all the clubs you had joined were so bad.
    And you might want to consider, that you actually get hit an MMA.

    Still, very shocking.
    A sport in which leg kicks are forbidden, won't teach you how to work with leg kicks.
    Boy, they are so sloppy and irresponsible!

    Ever considered, that maybe you just didn't get past novice level?
    Training at the same location could fix that problem.

    Also a belt doesn't necessarily say if you're actually good or not; I know of a JJJ coach, who would let people grade at best after a year of regular training - for yellow. I'm pretty sure, most of these "only yellow belt" guys have a better foundation and understanding of their art as yellow belts from other clubs.
    I'm actually disappointed that he left the forum, where I "met" him, because I would have liked to train with him a couple of times, to see how he does things... I digress, sorry.

    Well, it would have been useless to do pointfighting, if that's not where you want to train in.
    Yet again: Rule set and the such; others and I mentioned it a few dozen times.

    Also: I bet they improved, because they were actually training and not only whining and complaining.

    I'm so surprised! Yet another point where you try to prove that point fighting rules give "bad habits", if they were to start in another rule set?

    And how is that now Lau Gars fault? As you mentioned earlier, that it was the styles fault, I'm still waiting how that could be.

    Looks to me, as if it were people and/ or the weathers fault.
    But what do I know?

    I don't get what that does have to do with your friendship, but again: Ooh, they didn't won anything in a rule set that was there primary?
    Why is that bad?
    Especially if they actually dared to fight in other rule sets anyway?
    After all that means they trained and even fought on a tournament; didn't gave up after one try despite losing.
    That's more than most people, including you, do.

    I think aaradia made quite a good point: You keep complaining about the past, your(!) mistakes -or what you now take as mistakes- and you blame styles, rulesets, sports and other people for it.
    Which is just ridiculous and stupid.

    It's not other people's fault.
    It's not a styles fault.
    It's not a rule sets fault.
    It's your own "fault" for believing stuff without checking it out.
    It's your "fault" for not knowing what you wanted and not thinking about it properly.

    And what is really your fault: To keep complaining, making stupid comparisons, play or be blind to differences - and change nothing at all!
    You want to train MMA, because you think it's *the* jack of all trades device?
    Than do so!
    But stop feeling sorry for yourself, because you trained some places you don't like anymore.
    Set yourself a goal to train at a place, you like and can reach; where you like the people and the art and the rule set (as that seems to be very dear to you; or you really don't get, that there are differences), ...

    You obviously can't change the past, no matter how much mimimi; but you can change what is to come.
    Hannibal likes this.
  11. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Sorry if this is off the main topic, but its more like 100% of fights take place "on the ground", right?, so why does it matter so much whether in a split moment, you're on 2 limbs, 4 limbs, or none? Does statistics really spell out what's going to happen in a particular situations? Does anybody really believe such a number, even one produced from a study, means anything to the vast majority of fights that haven't happened yet? It just seems like a big distraction. "So and so said 4 out of every 10 times they watched a fight, people ended up rolling around in the street". That's not really a natural law or anything, just an observation about a really small sample. According to the most well sourced study in here so far, most fights (2/3rds ish?) end with at least one person on the floor. Sounds about right!
  12. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    This is what I mean, and you said it, "Absence of Data". What research out there really supports any kind of statement that a % of fights go to the ground? Seems to be none, and the police study isn't applicable nor is one watching drunken hooligans. There is no such thing as "most fights ___", is there? I think this is the same as saying "most women ____" or "most people ___"...totally subjective statement, isn't it? "Most kung fu ___", etc. Somebody made a point about boxing also technically being "point fighting" but so what, and I've definitely heard my share of self-described martial artists starting with "most boxing ___" usually as they are about to tell me how much better their art is.
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2018
  13. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    I used to play Quake 2 with some good friends, over time it caused problems and we're not friends anymore.
    I think no one should play the Quake franchise anymore.
    Also it never prepared you enough for Mario.
    Mitch, Knee Rider, aaradia and 3 others like this.
  14. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Interesting, now that ronki85 here has used his former friends names in a post, when they Google themselves, they'll find this thread, and potentially not be too happy ronki is bad mouthing their former/current gyms.
    Latikos and axelb like this.
  15. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    95% of all games take place on platforms, I've done a study (deadpool et al, 1984) and everything!
    Knee Rider and axelb like this.
  16. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    And stupid me used so many words :D
    I really like that explanation; someone might even understand it now!

    Never thought about it that way, but boy, would I be... annoyed, if someone were to do this with me.
    Quite a good point, I think!
    axelb and Dead_pool like this.
  17. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Couldn't they have made the ring any smaller for the 6'4" guy?
    axelb likes this.
  18. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    This one time, at band camp.....
    axelb likes this.
  19. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Hah...visited Ludgershall on the weekend. Utterly surprised it has a martial arts club. They've only just got elec-trickery there.
    axelb likes this.
  20. IrishLau

    IrishLau New Member

    I did Lau Gar in Ireland in the 80s. Dennis Davis was the most senior LG person here then. What became of Dennis?

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