What is Chi and how to develope it

You measure it the same way as happieness.....you don't. You just feel it and smile.

 

But you can measure happiness. The brain chemistry changes when you feel emotions. So what is different about 'qi'?

 

Note: I said operationalise, not measure! You can't measure BEFORE you operationalise. What you are suggesting is scientifically invalid.

 

I keep looking and looking but I can't see the forest......there are just too many darn trees.................

 

So bear, where is this hapiness measuring machine youve been hiding from us.

 

Well in the case you're presenting above, then you can measure chi, chemical and physiological changes (changes in heart rate etc) can also be measured after a session of tai chi. However as in the above example, in actual fact you're measuring chemical changes, not qi or happiness. Neither of which are part of scientific discourse. So both peices of research would techniically be invalid.

 

Gyaku why cant you operationalise it? Because it produces no measurable effect?

 

I hear the pixies want it back...just a joke! We take ourselves so seriously sometimes - and thats me included!

 

In which case you also can't show that it is there, so it may as well not be.

 

Sorry Gyaku my contributionwas a little late.
One of my teachers said it was enough to consider chi as a way of bringing about relaxation. That does not mean it exists as anything other than a mental attitude that might help my progression. I was happy with that.
It's when I hear people trying to make something more out of it that I get a bit uneasy. And I am afraid many chi supporters will persist in trying to use poorly understood physics to actually bolster their arguments.
The electron can be a wave or a particle and western science doesn't know

 

teacher:

You need to operationalise before you measure. Otherwise how do you know what you're measuring?

Because 'qi gong' comes from a non-scientific discourse you can't operationalise it in valid scientific terms. It would be like trying to explain an apple in terms of a pear. I suppose another way would be to explain, is that you would be defining it out of context.

 

No arguement from this end. There was an earlier piece about some guy and 30 mobile phones. Now that made me feel uneasy!

 

Gyaku the term operationalise is not one in common usage and you wield it well. I accept that it is good practice to clearly establish your procedures but if the effects of chi affect the physical world then there is a physical effect to be measured. If it has no effect on the physical world then it may be a useful psychological tool.I have seen beginners who are so self conscious they try too hard , relaxing may allow them to make better progress.

 

But that is problematic. Let me provide an hypothetical example. We take 1000 randomly chosen tai chi practitioners and hook them up to various electrodes etc

We get them to do a set of tai chi. We record in all cases there is an upward change in heart rate.

Now how do we interprete this data?

Unfortunatly, just because there is a measurable effect does not prove that 'chi' was the factor. Effectivly the measurement is meaningless. Why do we have this problem? Because of poor operationalising.

Nice to have someone on the thread who actually knows a bit about science!

 

Did you not say you e-mailed them ? Any reply yet? (they are 8 hours ahead of GMT though)

 

Here is a quote from the shaolin temple UK website, doesn’t really explain much, but I though I would post it anyway.

http://www.shaolintempleuk.org

Qi Gong

Qi gong is a slow internal practice where the breath and movement are co-ordinated together to develop and store the Qi. The Qi is a special energy in the body that cannot be seen or measured, and which can only be experienced and developed through continuous practice.

 

yeah but you could devise better tests than that one. Anyone can devise a crap test, the people who know about science devise a test that could produce valuable results.
Ask the tai to push without chi and with chi. Measure the force, measure the brain activity, measure muscle activity and model the posture. See if there are differences.
Am I still talking apples and pears.

The Bear.

 

If it can't be seen or measured how do you know your not just imagining it?
I can imagine I'm the strongest man in the world but it has no impact on anyone else but me.

 

But thats the thing, you can see techniques that use it, and use it very effectively.

 

That is funny that you say that since most all very high level athletes will tell you that imagining is one of the most powerful tool in their training to get results.