What do YOU want from the ninjutsu forum?

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Moosey, Dec 20, 2008.

  1. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    What do I want from the Ninjutsu forum?

    I don’t want a subforum. Other styles manage to handle attacks and trolls reasonably well, why should the Ninjutsu forum be any different.

    I would like both the non-Ninjutsu and Ninjutsu practitioners to show a bit more respect for each other. There are too many incidents of Non-ninja types coming in here and making posts that don’t actually cross the TOS, but skirt so close to it as to make it laughable that they are not being pulled up on their comments. I would also like some of the Ninja people to be far more tolerant of genuine questions and stop with some of the pseudo-mystical and patronising replies along the lines of ‘ask your instructor’ or ‘you just don’t understand’. Ninjutsu is not that complicated, it is not some form of rocket science that only those with a Ph.D can understand, and the sort of high-handed dismissal of any noobie with a question that some folk engage in should not be tolerated. However, I can often see where some of these comments come from, when you have people coming in asking stupid questions along the lines of ‘when will I be able to strangle someone with my mind’ etc. However, the pseudo-mystical responses I mentioned above go a long way to perpetuating the poor image of the art. I think that Ninjutsu practitioners should be held up to the same standard of politeness and civility that we expect from non-Ninjutsu practitioners. There have been a few incidents lately where the way a Ninjutsu practitioner spoke to people (patronising, rude, aggressive and demeaning them) was, in my in my opinion, totally unacceptable and had the culprit been a non-ninja, there would have been uproar, accusations of trolling and demands that the mods do something. However, as the culprit was a Ninja, there weren’t. I would like the petty infighting and veiled insults to stop and less tolerance from the mods on some of these issues.

    I've got to the point, lately, that this is the last forum I visit and if I'm in a rush I don't bother coming in here. When I do visit I leave feeling angry, frustrated, disappointed, even embarrassed on occasions and almost wishing I didn't do Ninjutsu. It's a real shame because there used to be some really good discussions here and some fun people, most with a sense of humour, who didn't take themselves too seriously! Many of these have left and seem to have been replace by folk with chips on their shoulders the size of giant redwoods! Trolls were dealt with, in-fighting was stopped and everything ticked along relatively well. I'm not saying it was perfect, but it was a lot better than it is now! :bang:
  2. Big Will

    Big Will Ninpô Ikkan

    Only one thing could make this forum better - good moderating skills. I've been a very active moderator over at www.abcbodybuilding.com (though not so active anymore, kind of like some mods here that only rarely do some moderating) so I believe I know what I'm talking about.

    1) Don't allow troublemaking.
    2) Don't try to catch troublemakers by written down laws (while rules are necessary, they can easily be manipulated. One can write several trouble making posts without ever breaking the TOS here, for example - and everyone knows it, but no mod ever makes anything out of it),
    3) Warn first, and then warn once more, and then ban the trouble makers from this particular forum.

    It's not really complicated, but in this case it's definitely more about "feeling" than "technique"...
  3. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    ROFLMAO! Excellent use of the 'feeling' description! :cool: ;)
  4. Fu_Bag

    Fu_Bag Valued Member

    That's interesting. Two years ago Hatsumi-sensei had this message distributed to all Bujinkan dojos (snipped for length but still long):

    2006 January 9 - New Years' Shidoshikai Meeting- Noda - Japan

    Coming of Age Day in Japan is a day which is celebrated by everyone who turns 20 years old that year. 20 years old in Japan is the date when you officially become an adult and you enter into adult life. (snip)

    It has been 50 years now since Hatsumi Sensei's first meeting with Takamatsu Sensei. Many years ago it was said that 50 years is one lifetime, and I suppose that was probably because of the lower life expectancy many many years ago, so 50 years was basically considered to be one lifetime. And since it has been one life time in that sense since Hatsumi Sensei's meeting with Takamatsu Sensei, the time is now coming for Hatsumi Sensei to pass on the Bujinkan to the new generation. And because the day was Seijin no Hi, the Coming of Age Day, this was an appropriate topic.

    Now the rest of us in the Bujinkan are all kind of becoming adults, the Bujinkan has grown into an adult, and it is time for the Bujinkan to start acting as an adult in that regard. Hatsumi Sensei went on to say that there are some tough times ahead for the Bujinkan, so it would be necessary for the 15th dans, the leaders of the Bujinkan, to persevere and endure if the Bujinkan is to survive.

    Takamatsu Sensei said that Yo-Jo is needed in Budo. The regular meaning of Yo-Jo is the care of one's health. But by changing the kanji one can also arrive at the the term Kaname and Kaname is a Japanese word which can mean a couple of things. One of the things it can mean is Divine Eyes, Divine Sight, and the other thing it can mean is the Essential Points of Things, the Essence of Things. And the ability to see through the cloudy outer aspect of something right through to the essential points of it.

    So for the future of the Bujinkan, the leaders of the Bujinkan must possess this ability to see what is truly important and what is not - to possess this Eyes of the Divine, to see what the essential things, what the important things truly are.

    (snip)Hatsumi Sensei used this to say that we must be able to take the negative and change it to make postive come out of it. We have to take things that might not be so positive, and be able to change them, using the principle of change or henka in Japanese (the Japanese word for change), to bring positive out of the negative. So this henka refers to the Fu-Sui of Gyokko Ryu.

    And again, Fu-Sui meaning Wind and Water, the exhange or henka of Wind and Water are inherent in these cycles of nature. So Fu-Sui really reflects the change of nature, the changing of the seasons, and that brings us right through into what we will be studying this year with Shinden Fudo Ryu. Shinden Fudo Ryu - Hatsumi Sensei went on to say - is the Bujinkan school which stresses the importance of nature and of doing things naturally. We will be studying this school this year, so we should see the connection between the Fu-Sui of Gyokko Ryu, and the naturalness of

    Shinden Fudo Ryu, and also realize that change itself is natural in life.

    And in this we can find the answers to the questions What is humanity? and What is life? Hatsumi Sensei says. Everything is connected. Like the concept of Inryoku or magnetic attraction which we find in Gyokko Ryu. Good and Evil, Life and Death are opposites, but they are connected at the same time, because they are on the same line with each other. They are at the polar opposites. So everything is connected in this way, in a natural way.

    Sensei ended his talk by expressing happiness that he has been able to build an era for the Bujinkan in the last 50 years, and in this time the senior people in the Bujinkan have grown up and can now carry on the Bujinkan into the future as adults. Hatsumi Sensei ended his talk with the statement that what it all comes down to is Gambatte. And Gambatte of course is the concept of persevering to the end, of keeping on going, no matter what, to the very very end. He actually made a comparison to Christ in this aspect, because Christ endured even to the point of crucifixion and death, and Hatsumi Sensei used him as an example of what the concept of Gambatte means. To continue to the very very very end, without giving up. And so Sensei sees some difficult times ahead for the Bujinkan, but if we continue on with the concept of Gambatte or To Keep Going in mind, then we will be successfull.

    That was the main point for the opening Shidoshi Kai for this year.

    As an update to this, Hatsumi Sensei has now written a large piece of calligraphy and put it up at the front of the dojo. The characters read (seijin youjou) and serve as a keyphrase to go along with the theme of this year. In order:

    sei: saint, holy, sage
    jin: virtue, benevolence, humanity, charity, human brotherhood
    you: essential, vital, crucial, important, main point
    jou: life, birth, purity
    Perhaps an exact definition can be left for each person to work on for themselves, using the above information as building blocks.

    Best wishes,

    Shawn Gray


    Apparently, according to some translations, one teaching of Shinden Fudo Ryu (Immovable Heart School) is "The kamae are held in your heart". Seems like it applies very well with regards to creating a more positive forum (space).


    Fu Bag
  5. llong

    llong Valued Member

    According to the search engine, Xen lasted posted in the Ninjutsu forum in February, 2008.

    Also, people visit message boards to learn. At first they learn from whomever is posting, but eventually they get more discerning.

    Ideally, this subforum will attract experienced folks from the Bujinkan and eventually a Bujinkan mod. THAT will raise the signal to counteract the noise.
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2008
  6. bujingodai

    bujingodai Active teacher now. Supporter

    Well I guess you're just gonna have to put up with the second rate non Xkan mods until the board gets that good.:rolleyes: LOL.
    Ideally we'd all get along and skip the political BS.
  7. 2E0WHN

    2E0WHN Homebrew for idiots

    It was the political BS that caused it in the first place.
  8. llong

    llong Valued Member

    I have no problem, at all, with other X-kans. But the Bujinkan is so large, one would think that a Ninjutsu forum would have a member of it in a mod capacity.
  9. Custom Volusia

    Custom Volusia Valued Member

    Well...it kinda seems like the common theme is for the outsiders to knock off the boarder line posting (don't try to sugar coat it....just drop it) and for the practitioners to relax a bit.

    Anyone else agree with that assessment?
  10. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    THIS POST says it all.

    regards koyo

    I have had a few from ninjutsu/ninpo visit the makotokai (aikido) I have yet to hear any mystical BS or meet one I did not resepect. Should be the same on MAP.
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2008
  11. Fu_Bag

    Fu_Bag Valued Member


    As far as some of the recent activity goes, if it were a movie, it'd be something like "40 Year Old Beverly Hills Ninja Virgin Never Backs Down". :banana:

  12. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    We've given you the chance to say how to improve it, and this is how you use that opportunity?
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 21, 2008
  13. Fu_Bag

    Fu_Bag Valued Member

    Okay. Seriously.

    One obvious way to improve the forum would be to have better content and that content has to come from somewhere. It may or may not come from the Mods. Who knows?

    Anyway, I think the recent threads on comparing notes to make sure everyone is on the same page with kata and what not are pretty cool. It seems to turn out pretty well and is some of the quality control that is needed.

    I posted a link to a YouTube video about "Middle Class Gang Violence" in another thread. I probably should've just made a new thread with the question of "How would someone use Ninjutsu/Ninpo to deal with this situation?". This forum could benefit from some real life synergy that would/could actually benefit people and their communities.

    Its pretty obvious that any and all physical nonsense and posturing is a waste of time online. So what ends up coming through is the heart, mind, soul, and spirit of the art that a person trains in. If the person has no clue what this is, it shows and its usually a train wreck.

    If people were to really sit down and think "How can the art that I study benefit people who really need help?" and then start interacting with people online, there might be some pretty interesting convo around here.

    Here's to hoping......

  14. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    For those who are requesting a ninjutsu-training mod (aside from the two we have in place), I think it's important to clarify how it is that we decide who to invite on to the team.

    Essentially we look for active members who post in a number of forums on MAP, acting where possible as a voice of reason, interacting with members from all walks of life with respect, etc. Once we find someone like this, we try to offer them a forum that matches their interests to some degree but also gives them a reasonably easy entry into the moderating world.

    As you can imagine, ninjutsu is not one of the forums that we would usually drop a brand new moderator into, as it's one of the hottest spots on the entire website. We also appreciate that having to moderate a forum like this one could also be very stressful for someone who until recently participated in the forum as a regular member. The transition can be quite tricky.

    However, above all else we don't as a general rule pick people with a martial art in mind. We look for anyone we can see with potential to help us run the site better, and we are always excited to find someone new.

    Now, as people have probably noticed I take more of a behind-the-scenes role with MAP at the moment, paying the bills by whatever means necessary (there are some bodily fluids one should NEVER have to part with for money...), but if anyone would like to draw my attention to someone they think would make a good moderator, my contact details are available in various places throughout the website. I can't promise that I will reply to you, but I will find time to look over some of the more interesting candidates in time for the next round of staff appointments.

    Now, this is NOT a promise to find someone from the X-kan to moderate this area. Even if we find someone from here, they may be appointed an easier area to begin with. It is an offer to look seriously at members from all over the forum that I wouldn't normally encounter on a day-to-day basis.

    Please keep the recommendations to a private channel of communication out of respect for the members in question.

    Aside from this, keep the suggestions coming.
  15. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    Banning non practitioners won't work , how else would someone like me find their local club for a bit of friendly cross training?
    As has been said many times people need to chill out on both sides , it's an accepted fact that the quality and training methodologies of bujinkan dojos varies massively , so really what's the point of arguing about sparring and aliveness in the booj?
    I remember a couple of years ago in the Karate forum when every other post seemed to be how Shotokan sucked , we just either ignored it or responded with humour , they soon got bored and moved on , now i'm aware that ninjutsu and the Bujinkan in particular seem to be the internets favourite whipping boy so the problem is much worse , but i've seen plenty of posts on other forums where people have admitted to trolling ninjutsu boards because of the way people rise to the bait so easily.
  16. llong

    llong Valued Member

    Perhaps it's a difference from the capitalist West vs. more socialist Europe, :) but if Xen hasn't posted in 10 months, we'd say that such post is vacant. De jure, there are 2 mods of the Ninjutsu forum which train in Ninjutsu. De facto, there is one. (To state the obvious, this has nothing negative to do with Xen in the least.)

    How wed are you to this procedure? Why? Why not choose someone with no martial arts experience at all?

    Good content begets good content. Good content comes from expertise.
  17. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    Actually, this is something I would like to see more of from members in the Ninjutsu section. There are a number of other sections where Ninjutsu questions come up and the usual rubbish is posted in answer to them from people who actually have no actual experience of Ninjutsu. I really wish some of the more experienced Ninjutsu practitioners would venture out of this forum and take a more active part on the rest of the board. In the case of some of the misleading posts in other sections it would seriously help the image of the art if folks who knew what they were talking about could help answer questions.
  18. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    If we found someone here who was a beginner but showed the requirements for a moderator, I'd offer them the position quite happily. The knowledge of a specific art isn't necessary to ensure good discourse, which is what the mods are for. Ultimately content comes from the members, not the staff. All the staff really have to do is try to offer a good environment for discussion, which at times is not an easy job.

    Of course, if we could have both, that would be lovely!
  19. Shibari

    Shibari New Member

    How can we improve the forum? I'll defer to Ellen for some good advice :cool:

    Okay that's sort of tongue in cheek. Mostly anyway. Probably :evil:

    But the truth is MAP doesn't need fixing. MAP has a specific aim and policies. But a lot of its customers don't really want those policies. The customers have tried to change the policies but the fact is that MAPs feted inner core have decided that they prefer their policies to stand and that's actually fine in itself.

    But just like in business, a lot of MAP's customers looked elsewhere and MAP's customer base plummeted, with an associated loss of meaningful content. Now MAP can go on about how it's sticking to its policies all it wants but the fact is, it's almost dead. Members have literally haemmoraged from this sub-forum and they won't come back because they found what they were looking for elsewhere.

    That's not intended as a criticism or a moan, it's simply an observation of the facts.

    The user base wants x

    MAP is only willing to provide y

    User base goes looking for someone who can supply x

    Pro-tip: If you want to stay in business, adapt to your market's demands, don't try and tell the market it must adapt to your product.
  20. Fu_Bag

    Fu_Bag Valued Member

    The situation described above is unfortunate but not for MAP's sake.

    Those who have left for insular, controlled, nursery room type environs may have been experts on being members of a "Ninjutsu" organization but are far from being Ninjutsu students, much less experts.

    Can someone who understands the "Nin" of both Ninpo and Ninjutsu behave in such a way and still be considered a student of Ninpo or Ninjutsu?

Share This Page