What defines a Martial artist? (Taekwondo)

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by matutor, Oct 19, 2015.

  1. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Fighting isn't the only element of self defence but its a part of it. MMA is one of the sporting arenas that cultivate optimum fighting ability and the rest of self defence relies on other skills.

    The point is to consider your training's utility in other combat sports which utilise more permissive rulesets as a part of assessing how well your particular skills translate into a real fight. If you care about being able to fight.

    People who train JKD functionaly (for fighting functionality) will be able to compete in MMA or Kickboxing or open grappling events irrespective of whether they train for that arena specifically. If you cultivate the practical ability then you simply adabt for the given context be that sport fighting or self defence.
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2015
  2. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    But as I've stated several times, I think there is a superior method of pressure testing for self defence purposes and I do not accept your premise if by fighting you mean self defence. You can say it as often as you like and I'm still not going to agree :)

    So the point is to consider my training's utility in that superior testing environment.

    For your second point, TKD people frequently compete in kickboxing, if that is their thing. Conversely, I've watched videos of Krav Maga people doing kickboxing combinations as padwork. I think that's sub-optimal training if their goal is self defence.

    Last edited: Oct 30, 2015
  3. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    So now we've moved from me knowing about your corner of a country I've never been to, to the whole of TMAs everywhere (whatever TMA actually means)? :D

    In my own experience I think there is much in Enshin and similar styles that would translate very well, but again, the people I talked to were busy teaching Enshin, not worrying about other arenas.

    Same to a lesser extent with judo and BJJ, but my experience there is very limited.

    I can't comment from personal experience on FMA, Kung Fu etc, but my impression is that FMA looks pretty applicable in some respects, and Sanda should have plenty of utility.

    We're not really going to go down a TMA vs MMA route are we?

  4. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Basically I think fighting is what happens when self defence goes wrong or when you are caught in a dueling situation: which can easily happen in a street altercation. I think skills in both areas are optimal. The athleticism, skills, and mental/physical fortitude of combat sports carry over well into self defence. The awareness, conversational skills, contextual processing, tactical change of self defence training are specific skills to train and develop if self defence is your primary object.

    Essentially I see fighting primarily physical skills based and self defence as being primarily soft skills and tactics based. In MMA or Kickboxing you use your base fighting skills differently but your base skills remain across all contexts. If you want to prioritise self defence then I'd recommend training your physical tools within an MMA paradigm but to reflect a self defence context. The best self defence does this. Even JWTs Sim days essentially resemble MMA with more physical restrictions and a different set of 'victory' criteria/game objectives.
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2015
  5. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member


    To also mention that a 10th Degree Black Belt has twice the skill as a 5th :rolleyes:
  6. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    I think this is largely what I've been saying, depending on what you mean by an MMA paradigm.

    There is certainly skills overlap, though they are not identical, and the success criteria should be reflected in the training too.

  7. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Really - I thought dans were logarithmic like earthquakes. 2nd is ten times more than 1st, 3rd is 10 times more than 2, (100 x 1st) and 4th is 10 times more than 3rd (10,000 x 1st).
  8. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Dan grade numbers represent how much shorter in inches your belt gets as you go up the grades.
    Although my belt's getting shorter for some reason even though I've not gone up a dan grade. I think the sweat must be shrinking it or something? :(
  9. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Are their Dan's in TKD?
  10. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    There's a bloke called Dan Gun. Quite legendary in TKD circles as I understand it.
  11. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    If It can shorten the length of my belt I am definitely going to get me some Dan grades.

    Anyone know where I could buy one?
  12. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    TKD theory jokes, you are all of geek :D
  13. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    I am authorised to sell them. Send me your bank account details and I'm sure we can arrange something :D
  14. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    I mean you train the core ranges and core physical tools the same way but for a different purpose. This might include weapons work and an emphasis on standing from being grounded and takedowns defence, for example. Also additional physical skills such as the fence could augment the striking curriculum.

    I think we probably are saying the same thing?

    The difference is perhaps that I see plenty of people training TKD (and other arts) who will tell you they have both fighting and self defence skills who do neither of these things and that this attitude is reflected in the school's own ideology and teachings; where as you say you have not and that most of them train it as a pursuit in its own right and as a sport. In such cases I'm inclined to agree that debates around efficacy for both fighting and self defence are moot. However in the former its not at all disrespectful to call that attitude on a personal or institutional level into question.

    You are clearly much more involved in the TKD community than me but I've visited several schools and trained and met many practitioners in real life who conform to the former category. In my experience those who I've met who had solud fghting skill love TKD for what it is but have no issue acknowledging that it has gaping holes and huge McDojo problems as a community. They tend to augment their training with other sports and self defence training... Because it's heavily required if fighting and self defence are your goals. Those without skills tend to defend TKD to the death regardless.
  15. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    One must know something to truly ridicule it. :)
    You know I'm back being TAGB again? Do I have to call you "sir" now? :)
  16. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    My name's Dan so I'm automatically everyone's boss in TKD. :p
  17. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    You can check out but you can never leave :D Who's you Instructor? You should come say hi to Van Zandt and I at the British :)

    And too bloody right you should call me Sir, it's no more than I deserve :D Sir what is the question...

  18. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Guy called Gavin Cook. My daughter's got her yellow stripe grading this weekend. Following in her old man's footsteps. :)
  19. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Yeah, I knew someone with a weird sense of commedy was going use Dan, the name of someone :evil:
  20. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    one of Jackson White's guys, should be good. :)

    Best of luck to your daughter :)

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