Is this the forum where people discuss Western Styles of Wrestling (e.g. Olympic Freestyle) and their applicability to self defence? If not, do you know which is? Thank you.
Sure, I don't see why not. Although I think you'll find a higher degree of self-defense applicability in some of the pre-Olympic styles. I've seen some stuff from the Renaisanse era that would be comparable to Japanese jujitsu. Some of the more modern manuals (pre-WWII) include lots of breaks against standing holds, and some of them have "pins" that can very obviously be jointlocks. Chokes in the form of pressure against the windpipe were generally forbidden by Catch-as-Catch-Can rules, but they still demonstrated them in the manuals. Surviving CACC wrestlers seem to place a lot of stock in facelocks (neck cranks), double wrist locks (ude-garami/Kimura), and various toe holds. In the pre-WWII manuals, the wrestlers seem far more upright that what you'd see in competition today, and I think banging the knee when going for a leg takedown was discouraged, probably because a lot of these guys wrestled on wooden stages, in the grass, and generally a lot of stuff that didn't resemble todays wrestling mats. I think this transfers better to a street/self-defense situation. There was also at least one jacketed wrestling style that originated in the UK, though the name escapes me now, that utilized grips, sweeps, and trips similar to Judo; modern wrestling naturally doesn't have any jacket-work. The emphasis on controlling and pinning the opponent is, I think, useful in many situations, especially in the "friend gets drunk and rowdy and you have to stop him from doing something stupid" scenario. Modern Greco-Roman wrestling is excellent preparation for fighting inside the clinch, as demonstrated in MMA by Randy Couture, Dan Henderson, and Matt Lindland. Of course, there are holes. Modern Olympic systems have no deliberate submission holds, no striking, and no work from the back, or really any defense against the preceeding. It's not often taught as a form of self-defense, and the only book I can find on Western wrestling as self-defense (Ned Beaumont's "Kill as Catch Can") is largely a piece of junk. However, one can see the approaches taken by Burns, Hackenschmidt, Bothner and the like as a bit more combat-oriented. They presented wrestling as a good thing to learn if one wanted to defend oneself. I'd say the merits for self-defense are primarily takedown defense, top control/pinning, hand control, Greco-style clinch fighting, and of course some takedowns. If you included some of the older methods you have some nastier CACC holds and some jacketed wrestling. Add some basic striking and guard work and you've got a very good unarmed defense system.
I call your attention to the wrestling manuals that I have available (for free) at my lulu store. In particular George Hackenschmidt's CaCC manual (but the Gallagher manual is good too). I will be adding more CaCC manuals in the next coming several months including Paul Prehn's manual and Frank Gotch's manual. Several, actually. Donald Walker details both Cornish and Devonshire methods as Jacket Wrestling, and don't forget Gouren. The "Celebrated Game Chicken's" Norfolk wrestling was Jacket Wrestling. Glima is an odd variant where you actually grab the belt and pants of the wrestler. Again, the Hackenschmit manual is available from my Lulu "store" for free. You can get Burns' Lessons for free from the Sandow website and high-quality prints from the Wrestling Museum for $33. Yeah, lots of "chewy goodness" still there in modern wrestling. Gotta watch out for chokes and subs though, like you said. It's kinda funny to read Hackenschmit ****ing and moaning about how the nastier stuff is just not fair and how he may have been cheated with it (he always had a rep. as a gentleman and strait-shooter) and then to read his CaCC manual where he details several and talks about how useful they can be. And I'd like to add the grappling from classic boxing as well. Great for stand-up clinch work, tripping, and throwing with a bit of neck-cranking thrown in for good measure. Not to pimp my own book too much (because if one is diligent you can pretty much find all of the material yourself - if you're willing to put in the extra effort to do so), but my book details the grappling from boxing: Banned from Boxing! The forgotten grappling techniques of historic Pugilism Peace favor your sword, Kirk
I believe that the jacketed style you mentioned is [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JdrPOQ4L1Q"]Cornish Wrestling[/ame]. I feel that wrestling has a lot of application to self-defense, for much the reason it's so applicable to MMA: the one with the better wrestling skills is the one who determines where a fight happens. Having good takedowns, takedown defense, ground control, and escapes will help you either take a fight to the floor or bring it back up to your feet in any sort of confrontation. Also, a lot of the slams/throws of Olympic Freestyle and Greco-Roman wrestling (double leg lift, suplex, hiplock) seem like they would have devastating consequences on a hard surface.
