Im considering taking up Aikido but someone I know has taken it up purely for weapons. I always thought Aikido was the 'gentle art' so how much weapons training to you actually do?
The Buki waza (weapons techniques) in aikido are used primarily for the development of Aiki taiso (The hand art) and not for the learning of the weapon per se, if that were the case, Aiki Buki waza would use the Ken (Japanese Sword) rather than Bokken (wooden training weapon) and Yari (Japanese Spear) in addition to the Jo (wooden staff). One must remember that Aikido is NOT a Koryu-ha (Old school method) although it does have direct influances from systems and weapons which are. To answer your question however, my dojo which is part of a mainstream Aikikai organisation emphasises a lot of bukiwaza to reinforce the taiso principles. Dave
As soon as one can because in my considered opinion they are a fundamental part of the art. Both the ken and jo are teachers in their own right of principles. The wealth of lessons which can be drawn from these weapons influances are, well, immence. Dave
Nice post dave, the better the weapons practice the better the Aikidoka. Osensei is famous for saying in his dojo that there is no separation between ken-tai-jo the are all one and the same. The 3 main aiki principles that where taught in Iwama was always HANMI ,AWASE, KOKYU - which is all developed from Aikiken. Although there are schools who practice a seprate weapons system than the founders. Ive seen some very good other systems and bad ones. Be as sharp and acurate as a blade and as fluid as a jo this is your taijutsu
In my Dojo I start weapons handling from day one. I was fortunate in having an instructor who held 7th Dan rank in aikido JAA and 7th Dan Jodo & Iai-do ZNKR so weapons were a large part of our training. I start most of my adult sessions with boken suburi. In the system of aikido I practise the jo is used as a yari, again good to make the student aware of their mai ai.
In addition to my previous posts and to support the above posts, the structure of my classes are as such... We practice one hour of Aiki ken/jo prior to the main core of the class which lasts for two hours. I try to link directly (as possible) the work undertaken in the buki class into the taiso. A couple of several primary conditionings I try to install is use of hips and movement through centre (uke's and one's own) When a student works with other students there are an infinate number of variables which effect the learing and conditiong process, this is because each person is uniquely different. This form of training is of course VERY important however, from a body conditioning perspective the feed back the student gets through physical contact with an infinate number of variables is 'infinate' When one works with ken and jo, the variables are minimised, the ken and jo always feels the same, the only thing which effects the feedback drawn from this training is the user, and nothing else. What this does is afford the student a massive amount of direct and constant conditioning to the mind and body, we absorb the movements and this feedback much more readily and eventually we move intuitively. When we apply this intuitive movement to our aiki taiso we are conditioned to move in particular ways, this conditioning dramatically improves the way we absorb contact with human sources. We are less likely to be counter-productively influcanced by the aforementioned 'variables' Regards Dave
Im not bumping this post by the way. I have found an aikido place near me who on top of normal lesssons they have a dedicated lesson for weapons and one for Taijutsu. Is Aikido Tai Jutsu any different from that in other arts and also would it be beneficial to do a month or three of Aikido first before I try out the dedicated weapons lesson?
Aiki taiso and Aiki ken and jo are essentially one and the same Unless of course the school you mention teach a different style of "weapons" class to that of orthodox Aiki buki waza. That then becomes a slightly different matter. I teach my students buki/taiso together from day one. From a traditionalist's perspective, one supports the other. See my website for a detailed look at buki waza in Aikikai aikido within my dojo. Dave
Here's an article I wrote on the subject of using a Japanese sword for the study of buki waza - Batto-ho Batto-ho: Ikkyo ude osae and Shiho nage are two very important aspects of Aikido; Ikkyo ude osae forms the basis from which all the remaining osae waza (pinning applications) develop. Likewise, Shiho nage is the first of the nage waza (throwing applications) where the principles of kuzushi and awase (blending and redirection) are greatly developed through the remaining nage waza. Considering Aikido’s influences from the sword, conditioning one’s mind and body to move according to those influences can be greatly improved through extensive training in Buki waza (weapon’s techniques). This training is normally conducted using a curved wooded representation of the Japanese sword known as a Bokken. This weapon allows the student to work in pairs, train in kumitachi (Paired sword practice) where they further develop their understanding of timing and distance however, what the Bokken does not teach is the correct method of deployment from the hip – and the correct use of hips within aiki taiso (as if the sword was drawn from its scabbard) and it’s eventual return after use. One might ask why an aikido student needs to know this information in terms of their development of Aiki taiso (hand art)? Lets return to the first paragraph, Ikkyo ude osae and Shiho nage. Each of these techniques employ principles used within the act of drawing the sword, in the case of Ikkyo, (ai-hanmi katate-dori) the sword is drawn vertically as one makes either irimi or tenkan (omote or ura waza) to divert uke’s energy, these movements with the sword and those within taiso are too similar for them to be ‘coincidence’ indeed I recall TK Chiba Shihan as saying “..this is were it (.taiso.) was born” Shiho nage can be looked at from two perspectives: 1, the sword is un-drawn at the point of contact (ai-hanmi application) or 2, the sword is drawn (gyaku-hanmi) From the first perspective the sword can be drawn horizontally as one makes irimi or tenkan, and is practiced from a reactive situation IE, your sword arm is held to prevent the drawing of the sword. From the second perspective, an offensive application; you have made Shin choku giri (straight vertical cut) or Shomen-uchi, your opponent evades the attack but then attempts to control one of your arms (Gyaku-hanmi). In each instance shiho nage can be effectively applied however, in these circumstances, the “nage” waza wouldn’t exist due to the fact the sword would be employed against your opponent during application of the technique resulting in severe injury or death. Either way your opponent is no longer a threat. The study of Batto-ho within the East Coast Aiki Dojo is specifically orientated toward the understanding of these two important techniques, Ikkyo and Shiho nage - each containing vital principles and foundations of aiki-taiso, with this as a specific aim in mind, Batto is studied through the following application: Ikkyo (ude osae) – Nukitsuki performed vertically Omote and Ura Shiho (nage) – Nukitsuki performed horizontally*, & following Shomen uchi Omote and Ura * From this method the palm of the hand can be facing downward or upward when holding the tsuka. An aspect of sword drawing which is not appreciated by those who don’t study ken is “saya biki” meaning withdrawing scabbard. Using a sword of the correct length will mean that using the right arm alone will leave several centimetres of the blade in the scabbard as you attempt to draw, it is therefore vital that the left hand and hip are used simultaneously to release the blade correctly, this exact hip movement is crucial in aiki taiso, Batto-ho therefore forces the student to rotate the hips, both in the act of drawing of the blade and in the process of returning it to the scabbard. In addition to the physical aspects of development, students studying with the sword very quickly assume a level of concentration which stems from handling a weapon of this nature, its not long before the student assumes this concentration when practicing aiki taiso. Posture, the foundation upon which everything else is based, is focused on and conditioned, many schools of kenjutsu use a natural hanmi where the back is kept straight and the student is able to quickly and smoothly transition between left and right stance, advance, retreat indeed move in any direction naturally, something which needs to be adopted for quality aikido. I consider Batto-ho as a natural level of progressive learning and not something entirely different or seperate, Taiso-Buki-Taiso, neither are more or less important than each other. In learning Batto-ho which simply means method of drawing a sword, the student undertakes a second but closely intertwined path of Budo, one which runs parallel with that of Aikido and has many bridges linking between them. Dave
I was just wondering because they have a class where weapon related stuff is taught specifically but they say nothing about you having to achieve a certain grade to go to it so should I try a month of Aikido then maybe go along if allowed?
Where I practice total beginners don't really use weapons. They are introduced gradually as students move through the grades. If you want to try the Aikido only class for a while before takeing the weapons class, then I say go for it. Either way go along to the dojo and find out what their particular policey is.
(lol) I can't say this ANY more clearer than this... Weapons skills are AIKIDO skills, you need them BOTH.
I know...I'm going to do the main Aikido lessons and then start going to the weapons class after about a month as well as normal Aikido.
Here is a nice article by the man of knowledge stan pranin- The debate about whether aikido should include weapons training is a long-standing one and we have frequently offered a forum to proponents of both sides of the issue in the pages of Aikiclo Journal. I have both observed and been a participant in these discussions and would like to bring up a few points which I don't recall having seen mentioned elsewhere. First of all, I think a reasonable starting .point would be to review where Morihei Ueshiba stood on the subject of weapons. Without engaging in a lengthy historical assessment of this subject, let me simply point out a few facts, As we have documented exhaustively over the past ten years, the major technical influence on aikido is Daito-ryu aikijujutsu. Ueshiba's teacher, Sokaku Takeda, was a master swordsman and weapons expert who spent many of his formative years studying a variety of weapons. Takeda only settled on jujutsu techniques as the main component of his martial arts instruction in deference to the times, when the carrying of swords was prohibited by law. Takeda's bujutsu was comprehensive in nature and can in no way be considered to have been limited solely to jujutsu techniques. Daito-ryu technique is built on the principles of the sword. Another fact: from 1942 through at least the end of the 1950s, Morihei Ueshiba spent a great deal of time at his country dojo in Iwama experimenting with the aiki ken and jo. One of his main students at that time, Morihiro Saito, was a first-hand witness to this process and the body of knowledge that remains from that effort on the part of the founder can be seen in Saito Sensei's aikido today. One of the criticisms voiced against the above observation goes something along these lines: "0-Sensei was merely dabbling in the area of weapons and never really developed this aspect of training into a finished discipline like his taijutsu or empty-handed techniques." The problem with this view is that the period of time involved amounts to nearly twenty years. This certainly would be enough time for a skilled martial artist like Ueshiba to integrate such a body of technical knowledge into his training. Remember, too, that as early as 1937 the founder took active steps to expose himself to the weapons-based classical art of Kashima Shinto-ryu at his Kobukan Dojo. His blood-oath even appears in the enrollment records of that school! Furthermore, I would point out that many of the common technical terms in aikido are derived from kenjutsu. Words such as tegatana, shomenuchi, yokomenuchi, and shihonage clearly reflect an underlying knowledge of swordsmanship. Likewise, a major body of techniques characteristic of aikido, iriminage, are based on thrusting and entering movements with the sword. In fact, the whole concept of irimi or entering is borrowed from sword technique. Let us be clear: the study and practice of weapons was a long-term passion of the founder. Those who would suggest otherwise are either ignorant of aikido history or are politically motivated. It is, however, a historical fact that the founder prohibited the practice of the ken and jo at the Aikikai Hombu Dojo, EXCEPT for Saito Sensei's classes. A rather revealing fact, I would say! Should it then be surprising that the Hombu Dojo of today has publicly stated--I refer to the published comments of Dojo-cho Moriteru Ueshiba and 8th dan Masatake Fujita--that weapons training is not part of aikido? The answer to the question of whether or not aikido includes weapons training depends then on the definition of the authority you consult. There is no universally accepted agreement on what aikido is, either technically or philosophically. Moreover, the average practitioner looks to his immediate instructor as the final authority on the subject of the art. Even an organization cannot impose its viewpoint on the content of training at the individual dojo level unless it is willing to adopt and enforce a rigid set of regulations. Such an approach seriously inhibits the growth and influence of the group as has been shown many times. As an illustration, within the Aikikai Hombu organization--whose official position as we have seen excludes weapons training--well-known teachers such as Shoji Nishio, Nobuyoshi Tamura, Kazuo Chiba, and Mitsunari Kanai and numerous others incorporate iaido in their curricula. No attempt has been made to prevent them from doing so. From where I sit, the whole debate boils down to semantic quibbling. There will never be a satisfactory answer to the question of weapons and aikido that is convincing to everyone. All of the arguing in the world about the virtues or demerits of such training will not change this fact. Those whose personal teachers advocate weapons training, or who independently arrive at the conclusion that weapons are an important adjunct to taijutsu training, will proceed according to their convictions, Those who have been persuaded that the practice of weapons is harmful or inappropriate to their progress in taijutsu will reject weapons altogether and inherit a set of prejudices that serve to justify their belief. Is this the last word on the subject? I doubt it, but I hope to have contributed a few new perspectives to the debate. end --------------------------------------------------------------- On my own part of weapons, I would say it is very important that people realise that there are very different ways of weapons training in aikido. There is the founders precise system left to Saito Sensei to sytemise and the iwama people. There is also a lot of masters now who where not full students of the founder as they stayed in the honbu in tokyo, they were mostly students of the first doshu(his son), as the doshu removed weapons and other parts that remain in Iwama, so they either recieved quite a bit of weapons when they visted Iwama to very little or non. So from that there is a totally diffrent understanding of bukiwaza. the ones who recieved some where also influcenced by other buki schools and crossed them, or they knew no wepaons from the founder and related there own taijutsu with the likes of iaido and kendo. Im not saying any of this is no good, just very different levels of understanding in Aikido. Look at Chibas taijustu and bukiwaza. its almost a completely different art to the founders now. As his time in Iwama was only about a couple of years in total in all his visits there. He has a completely different weapons system that he has evolved from his own weapons training in other arts , which in turn has completely changed his posture and whole taijutsu movement. His feet are a prewar jujitsu/kenjutsu stance. where as the founder can only ever be seen in Hanmi. The really funny thing or truly ignorent thing is that there are still mongs in the hombu who actually beleive there are no weapons in Aikido. Sorry for going on, but its something i feel really strongly about.
Or, use Morihei Ueshiba's words of wisdom "Do weapons training as though empty-handed; train empty-handed as though with weapons" -Morihei Ueshiba
"Do weapons training as though empty-handed; train empty-handed as though with weapons" -Morihei Ueshiba well that is Aikido and what we are trying to say.
Dave, Nice pictures and good teachings!!!! Thank you Sensei.... The dojo's got a nice traditional feel (reminds me of the ny aikikai over here)... was wondering what you people were doing over there
Thanks mate... I know the NY Aikikai well, spent time with Yamada and Sugano Sensei a few years back. Probably the most welcoming dojo to strangers I've ever been to. I arrived with my letter of introduction and was met by Luis (Dojo manager) who showed me to the accomodation without a second thought. Regarding the images... my posture is a little wide in retrospect but at the time it felt comfortable. Regarding the dojo... Thank you for your kind words. The dojo is a dedicated hall of martial study which also has Shotokan Karate-do. Regards Dave
