We don't need no stinking instruction!

I used to live in Japan. In fact, most of my time in the Bujinkan was spent there.

Now that I am back in the states, I have a whole new look at things.

I saw several people visiting Japan whose only purpose seemed to be so that they could say they had visited Japan. As long as they got their photos to put on their web site, they didn't care if they actually learned anything in Japan. Many people are pretty familiar with my rants about the matter.

Now, living in America and talking with some of the people here I see that the folks I saw doing that were at least trying to make a link with Japan. There are folks who don't even do that.

I got a PM from someone who suggested that all the knowledge you need can be found outside of Japan. I beg to differ. It is not the amount of information that is the problem, it is the fact that so much of what we think is true is not.

Here is a blog I wrote about the matter.

It is not that we need new knowledge, it is rather that we need to look at what we have learned from our instructors on a basic level and question if it is correct or not.

Just how common is the idea that there is nothing more to be learned from Japan? I might just be hearing a few isolated incidents.

And how many people know of someone that seems to only be in the Bujinkan so that they can do what they want to do and pretend they got it from a Japanese source? I can think of at least a few, and I am just starting to deal with the problem.

 

I'm sure it makes people feel better to pretend that they don't need to go to Japan, because they can't afford it.

Sour grapes people, sour grapes.

 

Lack of money, or a commitment they can't get out of, I can really understand.

But those types of people tend to at least go to people that know more than them to try to improve their knowledge.

What I am talking about are the folks that seem to think they don't need any more direction from Japan through any channel.

Since I got back I have found that there are a few people that are off the map so to speak. They run their own little groups and don't associate with anyone or go to anyone's seminars. Of course, I never ran across them in Japan and they were not a subject of discussion often while I was there. Now I am hearing about them and it is amazing to me that someone would want to use the Bujinkan name but not really try to improve themselves in it.

Well, maybe not that surprising. But I am trying to get a handle on just how common it it.

 

I think you have to consider what you want out of MA. I want to learn to fight/defend myself. I have no need to go to Japan for this.
Now, I don't train Ninjutsu; do you feel there is there some special reason for people who train this art to go to Japan?

 

Truly I'd love to train in Japan, but really why do we have to go. We have all 10th-15th Dans who run off on a regular trip to Japan and train with Soke,don't get me wrong but you will, I think Soke is absolutely outstanding. Then they come back and up the fee's for the next trip after just being premoted to another rank. Problem being some of the people returning have not grasped this knowledge neither, now I'm not saying I know everything about Ninjutsu or any other Art I have trained in for 25 years in Arts, most of which have been full contact apart from a mishap at Ninjutsu.
Sometimes a student will know when he's being fed cr*p, and sometimes it's good for a Sensei, Sifu, Shidoshi or Teacher ( if your not in the BJK ) to turn to his students and say openly " This Technique is cr*p but we have to learn it because of."
Also it is very nice if we all had pefect Tai-Jutsu
It is also nice to appreciate an Instructor who has been through the trials and tribulations of actual fighting to understand what does and does not work for them, or maybe there students to grasp an Art, rather than be shown.
I'm sorry Don Roley. I did PM you, and you happily opened a post, I knew it was directed at me.

Personal insults are against the MAP TOS, please avoid them!

 

If you care about learning the system.

 

If you want instruction in any specific art where most all of the serious instructors are located in Whereveristan, you go to Whereveristan to get the instruction.

Quite simple, really.

If your goal is to defend yourself, perhaps you might want to ask this question in the Self Defense forum?

 

In Honbu, the elite of the Bujinkan get the nourishment they require, and the mindless tourists/sheeples get what they want so that they can feel better about themselves. But if you're a reasonable person who cares about learning the system, you can get way better training elsewhere.

That to me doesn't sound like someone you'd want to train with.

I don't give a damn about what works for someone else who may be half or twice my size, age and/or experience. I have myself to worry about.

 

Elaborate please.

So you're saying that there are no/few serious Ninjutsu instructors in the US?

What question? If you have to go to Japan to learn effective Ninjutsu? Why should I ask this in the SD forum? I have no interest in learning Ninjutsu - I'm happy with what I'm doing now (Aikido and submission grappling).
The only reason I posed the question was because the OP seemed to imply that you must go to Japan to learn effective Ninjutsu, and I'm interested in hearing the reasoning behind this opinion.

 

There is no reason only financial:
It's the whole train with us or else brigade.
Thai-Boxers don't have to go to Thailand, even though some do for experience and a holiday. People who train in Ju-Jutsu don't run off to Japan or Karateka for that matter but it would be nice if we all could.
There are plenty of decent Instructors ( in fact some that are training the Japense )in many Arts who have never been to Japan or the country of Origin of their Arts as the info has been passed down well and have a full understanding of it.

I agree with Spinmaster tell us why it's so important.

 

Knock it off. You know perfectly well what I meant.

Pretty much the only chance of learning ninjutsu can be found in Japan these days, and you're not going to learn it before you learn Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu.

EDIT: I'm not commenting on the other X-kans due to my lack of experience with them.

 

The knowledge that can be found in Japan is far less likely to be diluted than elsewhere. Now there's a reason for you.

Which is not the case with the Bujinkan. Yet. And it will stay that way unless people keep travelling to Japan.

 

The Elite in a proper Martial Arts System it would take 130 years to attain a 15th dan.
A 146 if you started at 16.
Most Arts rarely does someone get past 7th or 8th Dan. As a 7th Dan would take 31 years of commitment from scratch.

 

And what of the Genbukan and Jinekan, do they not count

 

Of course you would be implying that Tanemura and Manaka have no real meaning of Ninjutsu inside or outside of Japan. That only Hatsumi can teach Ninjutsu, therefore it again becomes financial.

 

Are you sure? Which ryu of jujutsu do you speak of?

Instructors that teach specifically ninjutsu? Yes, I'd be very surprised if too many people in the US are instructor-qualified in those aspects. Most people in arts related to what we discuss here only really teach material from or based on the other ryuha.

 

Hatsumi is one of the lousiest teachers in the martial arts world. If you can follow him, you might learn a lot. But I don't train with him. And yes, I'm in the Bujinkan.

Broke your heart, did I sweetie?

 

They certainly do count. You'll have to ask Mr. Manaka and Mr. Tanemura if they have licensed any US-based people to instructor-qualification in ninjutsu-specific arts. I'd be very surprised if you find too many, but hey, if I'm wrong, train hard and enjoy!

 

No offense, but as someone who has been regularly going over there (3-4 weeks a year) for the last 15 years... I can count on one hand the number have times I, or people I chat with, has seen you at training in the last 10 years. So how is you not seeing them any sort of proof of anything?

Why does this surprise you? The Bujinkan breeds this by its own structure and rank system imo. It is hard to develop a relationship with an instructor in a foreign country who doesn't speak your language, hard to try and move correct when everyone blathers on about the feeling, hard to discipline yourself when it is easy to ust hold ou your hand and take rank.

It doesn't surprise me at all. This is why 99% of the Bujinkan just muddles through the training if you ask me.

 

I'm sorry this is rubbish -

It is perfectly acceptable to give someone a mastery of a martial system in less than a month. A rank represents standing within an organisation as well as material covered - not how good you are or how long you have trained.

If it takes you 31 years to master an martial system you probably suck hardcore and need to find another hobby -

Also not all men are made equal - there are people who are naturally gifted and will pick up a martial system incredibly quickly and then there are people who spend decades training and never get anywhere -

In terms of a martial system the aim is to become as combat effective as quickly as possible because you might well be going off to war tomorrow - not training for 50 years to reach your zen state or some rubbish like that -