Ways of Unbalancing.

Discussion in 'Aikido' started by Tempura, Jun 23, 2009.

  1. Tempura

    Tempura Valued Member

    hey everyone,

    i've noticed that alot of you talk how important it is to unbalance and opponent first, before you set up a lock or throw.

    i know atemi is a form of unbalancing, but is it the only method you use?

    like with me, i usually use atemi, when i can, then set up a lock or throw.
    but i also know that you can enter rotate when you accept the punch, and this does unbalance them, if done correctly of course.

    So~ what is and how do you unbalance.
     
  2. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Unballancing in aikido is called kuzushi,Meaning weakest point of balance in the attacker.If you imagine a straight line drawn between his feet and see that line as his base then the third point of an imagined triangle is the kuzushi,

    He can be drawn,cut or struck into the kuzushi to be thrown OR you can enter and place YOURSELF in his weakpoint and strike from there to unbalance him.He can also be unbalanced over the edge of his forward foot.

    Of course timing and distancing effect how powerfull the unbalancing is.

    Below I have moved into the kuzushi (you can see the triangle my forward foot creates relative to his feet) and I am striking him into the rear kuzushi.Had I trapped the arm and drawn it forward he would stumble into the front kuzushi.

    regards koyo

    All of the EXERCISES where uke grasps the wrist/s powerfully are training in body alignment and undertanding of kuzushi NOT practical techmiques.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 23, 2009
  3. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Fascinating explanation. I'm trying to draw parallels in my head with the instances of having an unbalanced opponent in boxing. Often times in boxing the best opportunity for hitting an opponent comes when hes off balance and therefore entirely unable to respond. He wants to but his body prioritizes and decides attempting to remain upright is the priority.

    Again to my mind - it's a similar concept in that entry is everything. If I manage to tie him up with a stiff jab and close that gap... the more inexperienced boxers will panic and lean back... taking themselves off balance as their footwork goes out the window and and their upper torso tries to avoid the attack - and the weight of the head just creates a leverage that their lumbar can't very well support.

    In DRAJJ I often noticed most attacks and effective techniques against me happened when I was in a state of imbalance. And for me it always seemed like that coincided with the lower back being compressed trying to maintain balance. Which was... as you can guess... usually futile.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2009
  4. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Hi Slip and thanks for the interest.

    If you look at the photo and imagine that I punched powerfully at his head you can see that it the position of his feet relative to the strike that makes it effective in that he cannot use body movement to absorb the strike.When teaching this we shall often say "Strike through to the kuzushi."


    regards koyo
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2009
  5. Tempura

    Tempura Valued Member

    the wrist grabbing kuzushi is the one when they grab your wrist and you basically carry on the momentum while guiding them through their weak point and then 'breaking' their grip on you, right?

    i havent eaten for like 15 hours or so and its cold, so im abit slow atm, i apologize for that. but, lets say a punch comes your way, how would you deal with it and turn it into a kote gaeshi?
     
  6. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Get off line strike at his face to pre-empt a second attack while cutting the punch/thrust to the kuzushi. In this case the edge of his forward foot. The wrist is "turned" where it lies NOT in a large circle which would bring a knife past your face.The wrist would be twisted into the rear kuzushi.

    Alternately you can turn the knife back in on him.



    regards koyo
     

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  7. Tempura

    Tempura Valued Member

    Alot of your description reminds me of some of Saito Sensei's stuff.
    earlier i was trying to describe something simular to this.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sf39s46Qxcg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sf39s46Qxcg[/ame]

    the video isnt good quality as i liked it to be , so i cant tell if atemi is used or not, but i assume its not, during the kote gaeshi.

    now to my question, is this form of unbalancing, where the defender enters and takes the punch downwards, while rotating then changing direction while applying the kotegaeshi.

    hope you understand that :bang: too tired.
     
  8. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    That is Mochizuki shihan founder of Yoseikan budo/aikido. He is demonstrating kuzushi principles rather than technique hence the absense of atemi.

    It IS the same principles I described. Incedently Saito Morihiro shihan was one of my main teachers.


    regards koyo
     
  9. iammartialarts

    iammartialarts Banned Banned

    unbalancing refers to making them lose their one point
     
  10. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    That is ki society NOT martial art.Proper timing body alignment and atemi NO mystic BS:bang:

    koyo
     

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    Last edited: Jul 10, 2009
  11. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    I'll add some of my spin on unbalancing. The best take down is a knock out, so IMHO, using the same principle of striking through a kuzushi, the atemi used to unbalance is in order of knock out, stun, unbalance.

    So the saying of "always unbalance before applying a lock/break or take down" is really more like "always stun and/or unbalance before applying a lock/break or take down".

    Or as I like to say, the stun LEADS to the unbalance... any one atemi is really multiple hits, a strike focusing force for penetration and stunning combined with the follow-through that leads to unbalancing.

    -----------------------------

    On a related note, some of the most effective techniques for unbalancing (and dangerous to use) are ones where you put yourself out of balance in a controlled manner such as sacrifice throws. I think it has to do with how much of your body mass is applied to the force used. For instance, you are using 90% of your body mass instead of 50%. IMHO, there is a fine art to learning how to apply more of your body mass into a technique by "seemingly putting yourself off balance" but at the same time this is controlled so that you aren't leaving yourself more vulnerable to counter.

    For example, have your training partner just extend one arm slowly and hold it out. Now you try to unbalance them. If you choose to grab their one arm with both your hands, step into a kuzushi and then drop straight down as to drive their fist all the way into the pavement... you should find as I have that they will be unbalanced.

    So the above exercise is a starting point. From here, the next time have them grab your wrist, use rotation torque applied through their thumb to break their grip while extending their arm, counter grab so you have two hands on their one arm and repeat the first exercise of stepping into a kuzushi and driving their fist into the pavement.

    I feel these are good exercises for helping to learn about unbalancing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2009
  12. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    That is a misunderstanding. To lose your one point is to be put off balance. It is not the method of being unbalanced!

    Ronnie from the Palace of Art says hi. He said you'd know who he was. :)
     
  13. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Please send my regards to Ronnie.

    koyo
     

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