Water Combat

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by Herbo, May 6, 2009.

  1. Herbo

    Herbo Valued Member

    I was on the kuk sul do wikipedia page and saw that one of the elements comprising their art is "Su young bub – Swimming and combat in water".
    I'm curious as to whether this is yet another wikipedia error or whether such techniques actually exist?

    Also was there ever a time that such techniques were taught in ksw as I've not heard of them.

    Cheers guys
  2. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    "Su young bub – Swimming and combat in water" is most likely included in the KSW syllabus because it was one of the fighting elements taught to the Hwarang of Silla. I've never seen anything regarding "water combat" taught in all my years of training, however, unless you consider how "wet" you get from being drenched in sweat. :D
  3. psbn matt

    psbn matt great sage = of heaven

    try training in ireland and you'll know all about water combat
  4. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    Although a bit off-topic, I'd like to take this opportunity to elaborate on something I mentioned to davefly76 in another thread about assimilated sounds in the pronunciation of certain words in Korean (when grouped together - obviously, the sounds of certain consonants DON'T change if not in direct proximity to the other consonants which assimilate them).

    The ancient kingdom of the Hwarang warriors, is actually spelled sin-ra, but the L sound in RA/LA changes the N sound in SIN/SHIN to L, thus giving us SILLA (신라).
  5. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    Hey Matt, is this a sideways reference to Liam O'Connor (Ki_Power)?

    If so, you're being awfully discourteous towards KIWEST. :p :D :jester: :evil:

    Also, aren't all the bogs in Scotland?
    Last edited: May 6, 2009
  6. davefly76

    davefly76 Valued Member

    i say tomato, you say tomayto. you say vite-a-mins, i say vit-a-mins :cool:

    and as the US was colonised by the english (amongst others) that means i must be right! :p:D

    KIWEST Revalued Mapper

    Matt is anything but discourteous Unknown...Having worked in the Emerald Isle for almost a year, I think it's more a comment about Irish weather.
    Anyway, even though I do live only about 100 yards from the Irish sea, my photo was taken in East Anglia. Thats the OTHER side of the UK in case you didn't know (which I am sure you did!).
  8. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    Hey! I usually don't get my panties in a bunch when people misspell words or what have you. But butchering another language (in this case, Korean) is a wholly different "kettle-o-fish." Besides, I wasn't trying to exacerbate but edify. If you were already aware about all that stuff I mentioned, then GREAT!!

    I'm sure he is, KIWEST. But I too often speak my mind (even it it does "ruffle a few feathers").

    I thought the ONLY problem Scots had with going near the water was the fear of getting gobbled up by the likes of Nessie. :D ;)

    KIWEST Revalued Mapper

    How come you are bringing the Scotts into this anyway. I thought we were talking about Ireland..or have I missed something..again!!:bang:
  10. Studude67

    Studude67 The hungry fighter

    anyways.. good point brought up there by Unknown how when ㄴ meets ㄹ it takes the form of the L sound, very important aspect of the Korean language
  11. KIWEST

    KIWEST Revalued Mapper

    Well, I guess if anyone should know, its you Stu!:hat:
    Is it not also true that when ㅂ meets ㄴ that it takes the "M" sound?
    As in 감 사합 니다? (Thank you) Did I get that right? I am a bit rusty on the Hangul lately! LOL
    However, as for butchering another language...well I am saying NOTHING! (or should that be NOWT?)
    What was it George Bush Junior said...."The trouble with the French is that they have no word for entrepreneur":bang:
  12. Studude67

    Studude67 The hungry fighter

    Yes you would be right about when ㅂ meets ㄴ it forms an "M" sound, its commonplace when using 존댓말 (jondet mal, formal speech) in the form of (으)ㅂ니다 , ㅂ니까 etc.

    It would be great if we could get some of this knowledge from people or curiosities in the Korean language forum.. theres cobwebs down there i swear!
    Last edited: May 7, 2009
  13. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    I'm going to disagree about this last one. I'm no speech expert (although more than one woman has experienced the fact that I'm a "cunning" linguist ;) ), but I don't see it as a TRUE assimilation. The nasal N simply softens the B, which due to the final position would normally get hardened to a P sound. Say "hob nail" (as in hobnailed boots) but don't emphasize the B too much, and you'll see what I mean. Also consider English words like THUMB. The B is tacked on the end to signify that the nasal M should be cut short and not drawn out. The softer you make a B, the more it becomes an M, especially if followed by a nasal consonant (meaning N - if followed by an M sound then the distinction gets a little lost).

    But yes, there ARE other assimilations in Korean. The original "error" I pointed out was with a pressure point, and another good example I often see (or rather HEAR) that gets messed up has to do with the two special channels (commonly referred to as Conception Vessel & Governing Vessel). The Conception Vessel is Im Maek (임맥), so no problems there. But the Governing Vessel is Dohk Maek (독맥), but this is properly pronounced as Dohng Maek, since the hard G (or K) gets transformed into an NG sound by the nasal M. I've seen the error go both ways, writing "dohk maek" or 동맥, either of which is wrong.

    Anyway, for those really interested in this rather (ho-hum) dry & boring subject matter, they can follow this link:
    Romanization of Korean

    That page is full of various examples and explanations. :cool:
  14. JoKyoNimJey

    JoKyoNimJey Valued Member

    I see what you did there....Gross
  15. KSstudent

    KSstudent Valued Member

    Gross????? Oh, you'r still young. Old dogs need more tricks!!!
  16. ember

    ember Valued Member

    That may be, but it doesn't mean everyone wants to know ;) I'm satisfied with Coyote.
  17. SatoriTheLush

    SatoriTheLush Valued Member

    I have a T-shirt that says "Cunning Linguist" on the front. You'd be amazed what that can do for a guy around closing time at the bars...
  18. KIWEST

    KIWEST Revalued Mapper

    LOL The last timeI heard that joke was in a James Bond film! That wasn't you was it Unkown?:eek:
    I think the problem is that it is not really possible to Romanise the Korean alphabet. Koreans have differently shaped mouths and larger tongues than westerners (no more cunning linguist jokes plase!!) and this is the reason for many changes in sounds. They simply CANNOT say Hahb Nee Dah for example! So it comes out more like Hahm Nee Dah. My last two Korean teachers who were both Korean native speakers both said the same thing. In fact they told me that it is not unusual in Korea, for parents to have surgery carried out on their children to reduce the tongue size so that they can pronounce western languages properly...now THAT is gross!
    Apparently the Korean government keeps changing its mind about how to romanise their own alphabet. hence you will see roads signs in Korea for the city of 대 구 written both as Daegu AND Taegu!
    Another example of this problem is the technique set Eue Bohk Soo. The Korean letters 의 (the ㅇbeing slient when placed before a vowel) sound something like a combination of "er-ee" (but without pronouncing the "r")or at least that is how I would write it. But the chosen romanisation of "Eue" leads to that set being pronounced variously as "ooh bohk soo", "Wee Bohk Soo", Eye Bohk Soo", simply because we all "see" a different sound for "Eue". As Dave said, you say Tomayto I say Tomato!!
    The problem also happens in reverse. For example the Koreans don't have a word for Christmas and so they try to "de-romanise" it into Hangul. The result sounds a bit like Kerr-lisser-mass-ser! The same happen with "television" and even "chicken burger" (As I found out after spending about 5 minutes trying to work out how to pronounce SOMETHING..no ANYTHING on a menu at a Korean service station!):eek:
    IMO, the only way to REALLY learn how to pronounce Hangul is to learn the sounds of the Korean letters from a native speaker and read in Hangul.
    If you do so then the pronounciation of techniques etc in the KS text books becomes much easier and more interesting. I mean what else have you got to do after practising all your forms and techniques each night?
    Still, I think we have to bow to Stu's superior knowledge and experience as I believe I am right in thinking that he spent several years living in Korea and may well stil be out there. Unless I am thinking of someone else Stu?
    OOOPS! Just realise that I have been "blathering on" about Korean language and it is MILES :topic:
    Now, what was that about water combat and the Scotts Unknown?
    Last edited: May 8, 2009
  19. Studude67

    Studude67 The hungry fighter

    Yeah im the Stu your thinking of Kiwest :p will be three years ive been out here this year!

    I would agree with what you said especially about learning korean from a native speaker and reading hangul etc. i also noticed about the romanization of Korean in Korea and yeah i have also heard that some parents make their kids have surgery to produce a better pronunciation of english.. bit over the top if u ask me :p

    we have kinda derailed the topic sorry everyone but i really want to get some of this into the Korean forum, it would be great to have some discussion because im studying hard thesedays for the Korean proficiency exam and trying to stay on track.
  20. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    long story short, i once asked master yang about the last set of charts and when it came to the water set, he said they were for real. not fighting though, ki training (with your shirt off!!!seriously)

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