Wali Songo Clip

Discussion in 'Silat' started by TomFurman, May 30, 2006.

  1. Wali

    Wali Valued Member

    Hey Steve,

    It was myself who posted the old query in the now defunct forum. The second video posted was hosted by a server/website that is no longer active.

    The video was in fact 'Introduction to Pencak Silat', which can be bought on VHS format. If your interested, PM me for details, as I don't wanna breach the advertising rules on here. I will also see if we can get some sample clips up on Utube and google video. You have a good memory!!! ;-)
  2. Steve Perry

    Steve Perry Valued Member


    Wali --

    I wasn't looking to buy a vid -- I have enough on my plate trying to learn one art, I expect it will take the rest of my life, and I'm on the downslope, closer to sixty than fifty-five, so I have to take care how I spend my time.

    I was just trying to point out that for viewers with some experience in silat or kuntao of various stripes, peeks at the second tape are much more apt to catch and hold their attention. Flashy drills are fun, but movie-fu makes us smile, not nod and go "Hmm. Nice move."

    Newbies who don't know what effective movements look like are apt to see the commercial set-pieces and be impressed -- Bruce Lee's poses (complete with the little bird-cry) look very dramatic, but taking the time to strike a pose can get you your head handed to you.

    Even though it's a drill, when I first went to the Reel site and saw one player jump into the air and spin around while facing a knife, I laughed out loud. From where I sit, that's a really bad idea. And I also suspect that the guy doing it wouldn't think about it in a real fight against a real blade, so ... why show that?

    'Cause it looks cool to the uninitiated. But for every newbie you snag, you are gonna lose a serious player who will do what I did, just shake his head and say, "Oh, please! I'm gonna buy a tape by some fool who jumps into the air and turns his back on a man with a knife?"

    If I hadn't see that second tape, that's what I would have thought.

    One of the things that impressed me the most about the first silat I ever saw was that I could see it was really effective, but most of the people at the demo could not see that. They didn't know enough to be able to understand what they were seeing.

    I had a rainbow of colored belts up to and including black in several martial arts and I knew that the guy demonstrating this silat stuff could have turned me inside out with one hand while holding his coffee in the other hand and not spilling any of it.

    People with no training couldn't tell that. Just some guy in a skirt dancing around was all they saw. I was at the next class he taught, and have been at most of the class for ten years since.

    Basic silat is not very cinematic. Even the groundwork doesn't impress newbies because a good player makes it look easy. But I personally would rather see a sneak peek from something that showed real fundamental stuff. I don't need a movie set with pretty backgrounds and flashy stuff.

    Reminds me of that old saying: For those who understand, no explanation is necessary; for those who don't, none is possible ...
  3. TomFurman

    TomFurman New Member

    Sorry it took a while for me to reply. I have trained with Inosanto, Hartsell, Bustillo, then Cass Magda via seminars. Couple of hundred hours. I have also been exposed to Wali Songo thru Cliff Stewart who I met in 1987. I have taken many privates Professor Harold Koning of Mustika Kwitang, and I currently train with Bruno Cruicchi in Raja Sterlak silat, and Garrote Larense.

    My current gang of rowdies is mainly former military, BJJ stylists, judoka's, and private contractors. I teach tactical fitness with Russian Kettlebells.

    I thought the video was a nice nutshell for those unfamiliar with Wali Songo.

    I just finished a weekend workshop doing some Venezuelan Bladework with Bruno Cruicchi.

  4. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    Selamat brother Steve,
    >Reminds me of that old saying: For those who understand, no explanation is necessary; for those who don't, none is possible
    I agree whole heartly to your opinion and the old saying is an execellent one.
    In my opinion, in general all martial arts's video demo is a worthless, it was heavily choreographs ( i wonder of how many repeat they tooks before they decided to put is on the video) and heavily credited to the pendekar or who ever he/she is. Most the attacker in the video did one stub and stop while the pendekar jumping around slushing, stubing, cutting and while the attacker just stand there not doing anything, eventhough his intended target is about an inch from his knife.
    In real life that move is a suicide and danger. In my experience, move away from the line of fire is a wise thing to do and the old saying, "if you want to kick a tiger ass, you better know how to handle his fangs." Word to ponder, huh?
    But on other hand is an entertaining stuffs and makes me smile :)

    Hey Tom, welcome to the list. Tell Bruno not to stare at good looking girls :)
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2006
  5. Wali

    Wali Valued Member

    Hey Tristan,

    Would you believe if I told you that each "bit" was only shot the once? This is God's honest truth.

    Also guys, please bear in mind that this is a DVD, not a hidden jungle camera capturing real conflicts. That would make very boring viewing.

    It would be nice to see clips from other systems, so that we can have a balanced debate about how things should/shouldn't be done, and allow them to be put into context.

  6. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    Morning Wali,
    Thanks for the info and good to hear that there is no repeats.
    I was not reffering only to the Reel combat video, I was reffering in general knife's video. I agree with your opinon. Unfortunately my video was documentary of 4 hours class compressed into 45 minutes, no demo, without a plan, no schedules what so ever, beginer knowledge and so boring :)
    I saw bit and piece of that video. However, if anyone wants to debate the move that I made in the video, I would welcome it...I may learn something new.
    Just remeber compare and contrast are good way to learn. Debate and arguing are NOT.
  7. Steve Perry

    Steve Perry Valued Member


    Wali --

    If I had the technical wherewithal to get a clip from one of Stevan Plinck's Sera tapes up on his website, I'd do it, but all I have are the VHS videotape vids and I can't get them from that into a format I can post.

    At some point, I hope to get a player that will allow me to convert videotapes to DVDs, and when I do, I will see if I can offer a cut online somewhere.

    Guru Plinck's first two videos are pretty basic, one each for Djuru One and Djuru Two. He explains a technique, the how and why of it, demonstrates it, and then moves on. Interspersed are cuts of various of the students doing attacks and defenses, most of them prearranged, some combinations the students came up with on their own. Not any knifework per se, as I recall, just basic drills, exercises, and techniques.

    It's all fairly basic and not real impressive-looking. If you have some knowledge of silat, you can see kinda how things work in our style, distance and principles and the like -- though most of us in the tapes were still at the beginner stage when we did the shoots. If you see the second tape, it took two days to shoot, and on the second day, several of us are bandaged up here and there after the first day's activities ... (And I think Guru Plinck was suffering from a ruptured disk in his low back in the first, and was just post-op to fix that in the second. He moves a little easier now.)

    My comment was not meant to indicate that the Wali Sango material wasn't good, only that I thought it could have been presented better insofar as attracting interest from people who were more interested in the basics.

  8. Wali

    Wali Valued Member

    Hey Steve,

    If your interested, I have equipment to do what your asking, so in the spirit of friendship, could put some VHS tapes onto DVD for you. All you need to do is cover the shippin costs.

    Also, we filmed a very different silat DVD 4 weeks ago in Madrid, with no flashy backgrounds, editing or music effects. It is set against a solid white background, and goes for instructional depth rather than production qualities. Purely focused on some of the upright basics of the system.

    Hopefully we'll have some sample clips up once they are ready.

  9. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    I don’t think I have seen a MA video/DVD which is done as professionally as the Wali songo footage. There was obviously lots of money spent designing the set/arena in which the silat footage was shot.

    A beautiful painting does not need an ornate frame, the picture speaks for itself and silat is certainly a beautiful style so perhaps it does not need any of the flashy framing.

    I guess the problem is striking a balance between something which may appear too plain or sterile and on the other side of the spectrum something which is too rich or flashy.

    I think it is important though to give the viewer a taste of Indonesian culture through music, dress and scenery.

    Perhaps an idea would be to show each application in a simulated real life situation in a chosen setting and then repeated in a studio with a plain background so that the finer details can be concentrated on more readily. Perhaps that way a balance could be achieved between the two extremes, just an idea.
  10. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    In the old days, we practiced without music, t-shirt and loose pants, no belt, not hats, and the scenery is in the back of my Uncle house...rice fields on and on. We also acknowledge, some of the student in the silat community did practice with gendang or music and with customs. But this usually during the festivities and musical fights as of Wayang Orang, Ketoprak, and so on. So not in every day practice habits.
    Now days, is different...yeah that's the right word: "DIFFERENT"
    And I could be wrong too,
  11. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    Ah, difficult one here!

    First, I think the Wali Songo DVD's are something of a bold, and maybe experimental step in MA DVD's.

    Not that I'm an expert on MA DVD's but they can sometimes seem a little 'amatuer' with regards to production & many could certainly be improved with a little more thought. So, I can see what the guys are trying to do. Not just have a 'stale' technique DVD but try to make it more contextual.

    However, I do find it a little 'arty' myself! I would prefer some more explanation, close ups and slo mo footage.

    Furthermore, I have a couple of trusted personal testimonies of Steve Benitez expertise & can certainly express that I was impressed intently watching his seminar at Seni 06.

    I think the cultural aspect of Silat DVDs, has to date basically involved a token sarong! Certainly, your average Brit would struggle to point out Indonesia on a globe, nevermind contemplate the MAs of the archipelago.

    Anyway, I've confused myself now :confused: :D
  12. TomFurman

    TomFurman New Member

    "Hey Tom, welcome to the list. Tell Bruno not to stare at good looking girls"

    The Miami group was listening to Bruno's ideas for your wedding gift/honeymoon. Venezuelan Rum or Tongat Ali herb!

    Brave man to teach a seminar before a wedding!

    --With Respect,

    Tom Furman
  13. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    When I get married my frien' he give me a good piece advice. He say "Eat a dozen them oysters 'fore you wedding night."

    So I did, an' tell you what, two them oysters didn't work.
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2006
  14. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    Stupid maybe, egotestical could be, or just plain crazy but not a brave man ;)
    I was not teaching rather sharing the beginer knowledge among friends.

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