Vital Spots - Pressure Points

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by ShadowWarrior, Jun 23, 2004.

  1. ShadowWarrior

    ShadowWarrior Valued Member

    Does anyone have any information or know where I can get any information on vital spots/pressure points.
    I have been able to find a few by experimenting on myself but not many.
    I am going for my blackbelt in TaeKwon-Do so I need to start learning them.
    If anyone can help that would be much appreciated.

    Ryan O'Hara
    1st Kup Taekwon-Do :)
  2. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    hit the search button. there's a thread or two here somewhere.

    i have one: it's called n-u-t-s. can easily be activated via low blow or swift kick to the...
  3. mattsylvester

    mattsylvester One proud daddy!

    You're best off buying a couple of good books to start with and attending seminars.

    Has a couple of good books. Rick Clark is a very good place to start as his ideas of pressure points are very simple, 'Just Hit Here' :)

  4. Furikuchan

    Furikuchan New Member

    Pressure points...
    Look up anything having to do with the Tuite pressure point system. You can get really deep in this stuff. I'll give you some basic info...
    Basically, the pressure points in your body are broken down into twelve meridians, or cycles. Each meridian is named after a different organ in the body. No, it's not connected to these organs, they're just names. The meridians are, Heart, Lung, Kidney, Liver, Triple Warmer, Gall Bladder, Stomach, Large Intestine, Small Intestine, Conception vessel, and Governing vessel. (I must point out that this is off the top of my head, but I think I got all of them.)
    Each meridian has these long lines of interconnected pressure points that run all over your body. For example, the Gall Bladder line runs from the base of your skull, down your back on either side of your spine, and down the backs and insides of both legs.
    Now, in case all this isn't creepy enough in and of itself, it gets creepier. Each of the meridians is tied to an element. Fire, Earth, Water, Wind, and Metal. These elements are used to create the destructive and constructive cycles. Follow the destructive cycle, and you have a better chance of hurting someone with long-lasting effects. However, these same points are tied to acupuncture and healling, and if you follow the constructive cycle, then you will have a good chance of healing someone.
    I know this all sounds really cooky, far-out, and weird, but I've seen this junk in action. Before you go out and buy the charts with all the pressure points, then go around and start poking all your friends, a few words of caution.
    You can accidentally cause some long-term effects just by poking some pressure points. We started learning how to strike against these points by using kata bunkai. In class, we were working on a bunkai off of the first movements of Pinan / Heian Shodan. All our strikes were focused on uke's right arm and neck. We spent about a half hour straight working on ththis same area of the body. The next day, Sensei, who had been working as uke for a lot of this, couldn't get out of bed. His left leg and foot were refusing to work. For some reason (we haven't figured out why yet) the effect will cross the body vertically and horizontally. (Right leg and hip leads to left arm, etc.) You can hurt an area of the body that you didn't even touch in practice through this. So, if you do practice thgis stuff in class, practice it on both sides of the body. It keeps one area from getting too hurt. You're probably not going to incite a response if you practice this one or two times. We only had that problem because of a half-hour straight session of practice...
    There are these really helpful charts that display just about every pressure point on the body. Search for books and things describing the tuite theory, to find out more about my ranting above. Sorry to take up so much web space, but I figured I should throw the information out there if anyone was interested.
  5. mattsylvester

    mattsylvester One proud daddy!

    This is why I like JHH and predictive response so much.

    It can get far too complicated and involved going in this deep. I know that if I hit X point, most of the time X will happen letting me get to another point.

    I don't want to hum, imagine a colour or work out what cycle I'm in and what is burning/cancelling what etc.

    There has been some very good research on this aspect by ADK Member Mike Flanagan

    He has done a couple of others which will be going up onto my site once the re-design is finished (taking ages, too many pages!).

  6. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    Actually, according to the principles of Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) the meridians are connected to the organs but via an internal pathway (ie. inside the body). What you call the meridian is simply the part of that pathway that lies on or close to the surface of the body.

    No offence intended....but....this is so much baloney. What you are referring to are actually known in TCM as the CREATIVE and CONTROL cycles (NOT NOT NOT destructive!). Both cycles are used in a therapeutic sense by TCM practitioners who use 5 element theory. Neither is more beneficial (or destructive) than the other. They are used to either tonify or sedate the energy of particular elements/organs/meridians. In fact, if you subscribe to 5 elements theory, any intervention that you 'do' to a particular element will inevitably cause a cascade of sedation and tonification amongst the other elements.

    On the other hand, this is all completely irrelevant in my opinion as it has nothing whatsoever to do with martial arts.

    I really don't mean to be offensive. I don't doubt that you're just reciting what you've been told by your instructors. And they're probably just reciting what some seminar instructor taught them. I would have to ask, as I have done many times in the past, just what the qualifications in TCM the person who provided this information actually has?

  7. Vanir

    Vanir lost my sidhe

    Important note: this is related to the study of acupuncture and similar, medieval medicinal practises.
    You remember the middle ages, that was where people used to hack each other into bloodied pieces of flesh on the street...and that was when setting good examples for acceptable behavior! It was a brutal time and much of its "realities" was, in a contemporary sense stupid.
    The tricky part, the part of which so many take so much advantage in sheer money making exercises today is that certain individuals within certain nations still hold onto these cultural ideas very strongly and thus to stand towards a more current definition of terminologies may be arguably perceived as racist. An example, "Eastern medieval medicine" is typically known as "Chinese medicine."
    The idea of "da energies, man" and their manipulations is an utter reversion compared to today's understanding of psychology, genetics, medicine and biology. Although these fields do not claim any ultimate understanding for all time hence, as any science cannot this is no cause to therefore abandon what is succinctly established thus far and continue in disregard of nerve structures, sinus operation and rather fragile internal organs for "otherworldly beliefs" combined with physical action upon others.
    In terms of martial arts, to an intelligent human being the application of a "pressure point system of combat" is completely ridiculous. It is absolutely tantamount to declaring "TheUltimateDeadly!" and belongs on the same cartoon show as every other ultimate martial arts outlook. Which coincidentally is also an excellent marketing tool for the manipulators.
    There are definitely points of vulnerability in the human body, I suggest any number of biology and contemporary medical publications in getting to know them. A few hundred years ago who could care less about internal injuries in some street confrontation, hell such things usually meant daemonic (or in the East, vampiric) possessions anyway. But these days our law enforcement measures will gather evidence and lay charges. Get to know how fragile a kite under the ribs and into the diaphram might be, get to know where and when you might use such a thing or whether all things considered you'd prefer never to under any circumstances.
    Be smart and don't get taken in by marketers who say, "No, no, be stupid, be stupid." All it takes is a little effort on your part, are you that lazy?
  8. Nrv4evr

    Nrv4evr New Member

    forgive me if i misinterpret your post, vanir, it often happens, but the way i see it, are you saying that chinese and eastern medicine is purely belief based, and has no relation to science whatsoever?

    i would have to disagree, because as proof has shown, acupuncture DOES work. it relieves pain and pressure, and chi has been shown to work by scientific equipment, by measuring the heat levels generated from an unknown source, i.e. the human spirit.

    again, if your post had a different meaning, i apologize, i'm just arguing against what i assumed you meant. :p
  9. Vanir

    Vanir lost my sidhe

    Oh not at all. I'm sure it was very scientific back in the middle ages. So was the idea of the phlogiston. Very involved, rather succinct and based in solid foundations.
    My point, and an important one is that in a martial arts application the kind of complacency you could get away with in 1500 (because genuinely, nobody knew better), could land you in a courtroom today. Internal injuries caused by the adoption of ancient beliefs in "da energies!" and their use in a physical representation are a serious matter to consider when you think you're learning some kind of "otherworldly system of knowledge."
    So called combat "pressure points" relate to locations upon the body where injury is as potentially fatal as a cracked skull/brain haemorrage. There is nothing secret, cultural or otherworldly about them. You begin learning them in the very first martial arts lesson relating to self defence. Poking the eyeball with force in kung fu (there's a brain not far behind in there and quite a nerve bundle). Kicking the testicles in karate (there's a variety of nerve bundles and sinuses around there designed to monitor and protect complex and vulnerable genitals). Basically any toddler will systematically hit every "nerve-point" on your body as part of a playful routine they aren't even aware of, it takes no "ancient, mystical studies."
    But scientific awareness is thoroughly important when dealing with potentially serious damage to others. You don't give that toddler the body of Arnold Schwarzenagger and tell them to go crazy playfighting everybody who looks at them sideways. Little two-year old would leave a path of bodies a kilometre long and then ask what happened.
    Everything in its place: yes in 1870 a kung fu practitioner in a Chinese province could poke out an eye and permanently damage the operation of your jaw and get away with it. Yes he probably studied to get an idea how.
    These days you can get an idea how to do that in your high school library.
    These days you won't get away with doing it.
    It has nothing whatsoever to do with "da energies!" We call that psychology these days (don't make the mistake of thinking that actually means we know less about it...especially just because you can become an 'expert' quicker in the medieval way of thinking).
    As an example, allow me to translate this statement (the voracity of which I cannot, at this time attest), into 21st century terminology:
    "...measuring infrared emissions..."

    The reason this is such an important distinction is that as physical force, heat or IR radiation must have a physical source from which to emanate. "Spirits" unless composed of some manner of electromagnetism (theta particles for example), and "souls" are pure speculation, based on faith rather than evidence in terms of science.
    "Heat levels" do not suggest nor infer a "human spirit" but a biological heat source, from a location or manner which is not presently being measured if it is "unknown" in the particular lab methodology.

    Cultural understanding is a good thing. Entertaining historical perspectives can be invaluable to this end. It should not however become an excuse for lazy-mindedness. This is martial arts here, where we instruct ourselves rather than rebel because we want to be here, haven't been forced to by our parents and the law.
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2004
  10. ShadowWarrior

    ShadowWarrior Valued Member

    Thanks for the help. Does anyone know any websites that tell you where to hit, the result, etc...
    If you have any links please post!
  11. jroe52

    jroe52 Valued Member

    just wanted to say stop by at for charts in their information sections. since the creator is a sifu under grand master william cheung who specializes in pressure point healing and other stuff it is a very good place to get a start. dig through their pages you'll find alot of usefull information beyond wing chun
  12. paulol

    paulol Valued Member

    No Offence! But.....

    Vanir ,
    I am sure that you have researched your comments extensively, as your back up seems to be extensive. But western medicine is turning to the (medieval) Chinese method bit by bit. Is this due to placebo? I don't know. What I do know is that is have seen and felt PP's work, and have also felt Chi in action. So I cannot agree with your blanket damming of this side of the MA.

    As you have a problem with medieval theories, then I presume that you are not training in an old traditional style? :D

    Shadow Warrior ,

    Matt S has a great site listed below. Also have a look at

    All the best in your quest pal :D
  13. Scarlet Mist

    Scarlet Mist Banned Banned

    Does acupuncture work. Sure, it probably does, on some people anyway. How does it work, by meridians and energy flow and ki and what not? Probably not. Acupuncture is thought to work by stimulating the release of endorphins ... but as with everything in science, no one's sure. It's kind of like the phlogiston Vanir mentioned. Does a fire cause the release of heat? Sure it does. Is there some phlogiston floating around all up in there? Probably not.
  14. Hapkido

    Hapkido New Member

    talk to your instructor and ask him to show you. if you need to learn them then he will have no problem showing you them. heres also a little exercise ive done in my hapkido class several times: start at the hand and work your way up the arm all the way through the chest and try to hit all the pressure points you can, and you can do feet etc etc but its a good way to learn how to hit the pressure points quickly. works for me anyways, i never miss em'.
  15. cybermonk

    cybermonk New Member

    Isnt psychology a science of theories and speculation? I havent heard of any law of psychology, correct me if im wrong.
  16. jroe52

    jroe52 Valued Member

    whoever wrote that its unrelevent to MA is being ignorant to me for two reasons.

    1. ma's get injured, so ma's use methods of healing. often these methods work or are cheaper then alternatives. for instance vicadin might kill your pain, but accupuncture might also help speed up healing. would you argue "dit da jow" is unimportant to MA's because its not a fighting art? even though it speeds up healing recovery and stops pain with "midevil" technology. alot of older technologies are effective such as native american healing (whats left of what didnt get destroyed from americans) and accupuncture or meridian therapy.

    2. dim mak. you need to know the pressure points to perform dim mak, and dim mak needs the pressure points to work. knowing a few key vital pressure points is very useful in martial arts, so again i'd like to state that its useful to know. it is however to simply memorize the pressure points without knowing their uses, exact location, dim mak purposes ect. it takes alot of studying and research and later methods of using.

    i also got into a huge dim mak discussion a few months ago in the kf forum, do a search for it. my biggest point in sum was what i say for smoking pot "don't knock it till you try it". have me strike your pressure points and then ask me if its less painful or innefective. there are some points that are so sensitive you can put light pressure on them and cause mass direct pains and malfunctions in the human body.

    i find it interesting accupuncture and pressure point healing. i know it has destructive and constructive purposes. when used for healing it can aid or speed up recovery proscesses which is a good thing. i think surgeons, doctors, ect have their purposes but alot of stuff they prescribe could be cured cheaper and more effectivly with accupuncture.
  17. Infesticon #1

    Infesticon #1 Majesticon

    You can't just discount Chinese medicine like that. It's built from a vast amount of empirical data.

    There's nothing wrong with making assumptions from a huge sample of empirical data, and chinese medicine works very well for certain conditions, just as western medicine works very well for certain conditions.
  18. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    I think this is a very good point. TCM was developed over much time using this long-term empirical data. It may not may not explicable in terms of science and modern medicine but that does not mean it is necessarily lacking in clinical effectiveness.

    TCM does not always work, but then neither does modern medicine.

  19. ppko

    ppko Valued Member many martial artist feel it is the best books on pressure points, he has been in the top 250 best sellers list for borders and barnes and nobles for the last ten years. Don't believe what many people feel about George as many are jealous go to a seminar and make your own decision, buy a video , or a book than tell me how it goes.

  20. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    Not sure if you're referring to my comments regarding 5 element theory being irrelevant to martial arts. But assuming you are....

    Maybe so, but why should the specific method of healing be relevant to the specific techniques and principles practiced in a martial art? I don't see any obvious correlation at all. I could go for an x-ray after cracking a rib during training. But studying radiology isn't going to benefit my martial art training in any way.

    Knowing points and how to hit them really doesn't require any knowledge of 5 elements. I know plenty of people who can hit points and knock people out just fine without having to have any knowledge of 5 elements. Futhermore, just about every martial artist I have met or corresponded with who claimed to know something about 5 elements actually had an incomplete or flawed understanding of the subject.

    But hey, maybe I'm just ignorant, despite having formal qualifications in Oriental Medicine.

    Last edited: Jul 2, 2004

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