Video: Fajin Demo by the Associate Instructors of AYZYIM

This video shows the demonstration of the fajin testing exercises of the Pre-Heaven Power Method by three associate instructors of the American YiZungYue Internal Martial Arts Association (AYZYIM).
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6M0-1k30Fo"]YouTube- Fajin (Fajing) demo by Associate and Assistant Instructors of AYZYIM -- Part II[/ame]
AYZYIM is a new organization to promote the Pre-Heaven Power Method to the world's martial arts community (http://americanyzy.com/). The Pre-Heaven Power Method, developed by Grandmaster Pan Yue, is a systematic, revolutionary, and comprehensive approach to acquiring internal power. The associate instructors will assist Master Wei-Chung Lin, the Chief Instructor of AYZYIM, in the forthcoming First International Workshop on the Pre-Heaven Power Method to be held on October 23-24, 2010 in Skokie, Illinois, U.S.A.

 

Hmm...

I took a look at the video you've posted and have some questions for you. One consistent thing I noticed was there was a simply mechanical advantage applied every single time by the person doing to the pushing.

Mainly that the person pushing in the videos is almost always initiating the attack on an opponent with a very narrow base. The attacker here has a much more stable and dynamic base. So it's obviously much easier to generate power and drive if you're in a staggered stance. Mechanically you have the advantage. You're driving using the gluteals and legs so there's going to be a fair bit of force that can be exerted... as well... there is a lower center of gravity. The concept is no different than when football players or rugby players go in for a tackle and drop their center of gravity to gain drive and stability thereby aiding in the generation of whole body power resulting in more powerful and effective tackles.

The force that can be exerted is going to be far great than the ability of a person with a narrow stance to resist. I took a few screen shots to show exactly what I mean. I'd really have to question the usefulness of this as a drill or even as a test. It's akin to making up a boxing test where one boxer stands with a narrow stance and lets the other boxer with proper footwork and center of gravity hit him with punch. It doesn't take much to figure out who's going to come out on top.

It seems like tests or drills like this are simply stating the biomechanically obvious. You could take anyone and have them in the same stances and end up with the same results... no training involved. Only difference would be that in reality... most people who see someone go into a staggered stance would not just stand there with their ankles and knees together in an extremely narrow stance. Most people don't even stand like that... certainly not in confrontations. The body in general knows a bit better and will instinctively move into a wider base than what is show here. This drill repeated like it is in the vids will put the receiver of the push into a pre-programmed mindset and he's entirely compliant with what's going on. Rendering this sort of drill almost useless in my opinion.

In your style what does this drill represent?

Is it a test? If so of what?

 

Plus I think the person being pushed is "selling" that push as well as an oscar winning actor.
The vast majority of the time I'd say the person could stop themselves being propelled back far earlier than hitting the matress on the wall. They know the matress is there so they fall back into it. Maybe unconsciously. Maybe not.
For the guys being pushed I'd advise taking one or two big steps rather than that little stepping shuffly run they do.
Like you'd do if yo were holding pads for a strong kicker.
I'd like to feel that fajin for myself but I feel I would not be pushed back as far as those guys.

 

Aside from the obvious power base issue as mentioned by slip a few of them seem to accelerate slightly as they move back, particularly the assistant in the last push. I'm not sure if it's my eyes playing tricks on me but if you look at some of the other videos it becomes more apparent. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2Qvo_BUmNU&feature=related"]This video[/ame] at about 1m20s the practitioner has all but stopped moving yet can still generate enough force to throw him back 6 feet.

I'm pretty sure the guys are expecting to be pushed at the right times, in the [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2Qvo_BUmNU&feature=related"]same video[/ame] at 1m55s and at 2m08s the same guy glances over his left shoulder just before being pushed back.

Whether or not it is deliberate or not I couldn't say but from what I've experienced of these kind of demonstrations there is often pressure from the instructor for the target to perform correctly when pushed, whether through criticism or through correction of falling technique so that anyone training enough at this falls because they have trained to fall. Great against anyone trained in the art but worthless against anyone who doesn't realise they are expected to fall in a certain way.

 

I think a much better test would be to make them stand with their backs to an electric fence. Not one that would kill them but a little one for keeping sheep in.
Or maybe a 10 foot drop into some poo?
I wonder how far they'd be thrown back then?
A foot maybe?

 

Or maybe an offensive move?

 

No no....let's keep it as an abstract "Look how far I can push someone" test.

Obviously someone pushing me into an electric fence would get an "offensive move" or two in the face. But then I'm not the one touting the combat potential of "fajin".

All I'm saying is that it's far easier to convince someone to let you push them if there's a nice soft landing. That might be a factor in how effective it looks.

 

Their feet are square on. The weakest point of their balance is directly behind them.

A simple push will unbalance them. Attempt it with one foot or the other a half step behind and some resistance it is far more difficult.

 

If I'm training really hard the temptation of a nice fluffy mattress would be enough to let someone push me about a little bit.

 

You know what I love...how people put these sorts of posts up in order to advertise and promote their art/association but just get a load of posts basically saying what a load of bunk and what a party tricks it is.
I love the internet.

 

hahahahaha

so true PASmith

 

Sorry but you just don't get it do you?

It is the pre-heaven power techniques.

That means if you use them you end up in heaven.

Before your time maybe but no art is perfect.

 

Congratulations! You've figured out that if you get someone off balance you can push them really easily! How is your fajing supposedly tested in these shoves?

 

First, I'd like to thank you for taking time to write this long and constructive comment. We have been training in this way for so long that we forget how the exercises are perceived by those without the knowledge of the Pre-Heaven Power Method.

If the range of scale for Pre-Heaven Power Method is from 1 to 10, the level of the associate instructors is between 5 to 6. That is, they learn a lot of it but still far from perfect.

Here I briefly summarize the objectives of these particular training exercises:
Bounce (not push!) the training partner as far as you can subject to the following constraints:
(1) The movement has to be initiated from the balls of the feet, not the waist or any other body part.
(2) Upon contact with the partner and while your body is compressed either actively (e.g., you advance toward the partner) or passively (e.g., the partner pressures you) you should align your body properly in order to transmit the energy to the ground and return the counter-force from the ground to the partner instantly and without loss.
(3) The body should be as relaxed as possible, especially for those Tai Chi like movements.

So, the major focus in these exercises is how the movement is executed in order to develop the desirable body mechanics. The reactions of the partners are the indicators of how much power you can generate with the REQUIRED BODY MECHANICS. The partners are not suppose to fall, run, or jump back themselves since these will exaggerate the performance of the practitioner and not provide correct feedback to the practitioners. The correct body mechanics the practitioners acquired at this stage will serve as the foundation for the training of the next two stages - response hands and sparring.


The uniqueness of the Pre-Heaven Power Method is the training of the balls of the feet. The details are beyond description here but you will be amazed how much power you can possess after the newly developed body mechanics become a natural part of you. The essence of internal martial arts training is to develop a more efficient and powerful habit of movements. It usually takes five to ten years to be able to get rid of the old habit and able to apply the Pre-Heaven Power at will in sparring. It took these associate instructors a few years hard work before they can do what are shown in the video.

Again, I appreciate your criticism and I'd like to have your permission to quote what you said in a coming blog article on our americanyzy.com site.

Here is a video with two parts: form and applications. From the applications (which is still different from using the Pre-Heaven Power in a real fight), you may get some idea about the desirable body mechanics in action.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAq1WA_RCiI"]YouTube- Baguazhang (Bagua Palm) Form and Applications[/ame]

 

Do you have any clips of Pre-Heaven Power in full contact sparring? Preferably with a practitioner of another art for comparison?

 

Heh...call me a nuisance but I think someone needs to tell the people being pushed what's written above.

 

Unfortunately, we don't. Ideally, we would like to have a young student (age between 15 to 20 with fighting spirit) who is enthusiastic in learning this method and train him/her up to the level of 9 to 10 before he/she goes out to fight. But, we don't have the luck to find a young guy with mature thought to pursue in this path so far.

Anyway, we don't claim that you can beat anybody after you learn the Pre-Heaven Power Method. But, we can guarantee that after you learn the method you will be able to maximize your body potential and become more powerful than you were.

 

Why do you need a young student? Aren't there any people currently able to defend themselves against a student of a suitable style?

If it's not for self defence what is the point in maximizing your body potential and becoming more powerful when a couple of years of Muay Thai will do this and give you a decent basis for self defence.

 

There is only one requirement on the partner in these exercises. He has to stay rigid as if he is a punching bag and provides no resistance. If someone follows this protocal, he will certainly react in a way to keep balance after he has been bounced. Some clips show the partners jumping in the air. This is because the partner got shoched and uprooted by the sudden downward pulling force initiated from the balls of the feet. Some people react this way and some don't. According to our experience, the partners react differently when you apply the same technique to them. This is due to the difference in how he grabs you, his body structure and body elasticity, size, height, and psychology, etc.

 

You are right. May be there is no need for youth as long as the student likes to fight and is well trained.

Of course the objective is for self-defense. Even a Muay Thai guy can benefit from learning this body mechanics. He will have the advantage over other Muay Thai fighters after he excels at the Pre-Heaven Power Method. As I said before, the comparison is against yourself, i.e., you will be more powerful after you learn the method regardless of your style.