Video about the Yang TJQ Two-person exercises?

I am searching for very good video about the Yang style Taijiquan 2-person exercises: Tui Shou, Da Liu (advanced Tui Shou) and San Shou (Two person form).
I have this videos:
- Traditional Yang Style Taiji Push Hands by Li Derun (Push Hands variations)
- Tai Chi Fighting Form by Robert Poyton (Yang Fighting form)
- MTG-5 Push Hands Basics - MTG-3 Pauchui & San-Sau by Erle Montaigue (Erle Quan variation)
but none of them satisfy my needs. Maybe the best of them are the Erle's videos, but I am not 100% satisfied.

On the net I also found:
- Yang Style San Shou by Michael Gilman
- Le grand San Shou du Style Yang by Thierry Alibert
- Tai Chi Fighting Set by Yang Jwing Ming
- Parting Wild Horses Mane (Tai Chi Two-Person Dance) by Jonathan Russell (not yet aviable)
Does anybody have any of above videos and can comment/recommend any of them?

Any recommendation?

 

I think you pretty much covered it It's funny you ask about this, because just yesterday I was watching a student begin to learn one side of it. Looks like a lot of fun, I hope to learn it myself someday. Personally speaking, I don't ever think I could learn those forms from a video, there is just too much minutia and complexities involved from what I can see, but maybe others are a lot smarter than myself.

 

I need only a reference video for my collection. Yes it difficult to learn this from a video and you also must have a training partner.
However there are very good videos from which is possible to learn TJQ, but you must practice under the supervision of a master.

 

The Yang Jwing Ming one is da ****z.

 

What mean that YJM video is "da ****z". As I know YJM learned his Two-person form from Chen Weishen (<- Zhang Xiangsan <- Ding Zi Cheng) and is slightly different from the San Shou teached by Yang Shao-hou's students.
Also his style is not "authentic" Yang as he says but it is authentic "Yang JM" style.

 

Lineage is so much air, it is not a measure of skill. If you are looking for some great detail and explanations of why each movement is like it is from someone that has real skill and understanding - I would take a look.

 

Which particular students of Yang Shao-hou are you comparing this to?

 

As I know the (Yang style) form was practiced by Yang Sau Chung (greatest son of Yang Cheng Fu), Tian Zhao Lin (student of Yang Jian Hou, Yang Shao Hou and Yang Cheng Fu) and Hsiung Yang Ho (student of Yang Jian Hou and Yang Shao Hou). Its is also presented in the book "Taijiquan Sword Sabre Staff and Dispersing-Hands Combined" that was written by Tian Zhao Lin's student Yearning Kung Chen in 1943. The form was popular in Taiwan.

 

Interesting that you say that Erle's video is the best. I think Erle learnt his 2-person set from Chu King Hung. Therefore, his set should be the same as that taught by Chu Gin Soon. Do you know whether the set taught by Tian Zhao Lin is the same as that taught by Yang Sau Chung?

 

Erle does two two man sets AFAIK, one from Chu King Hung (one person does set attacks the other works postures up to single whip) and the two person set that is more like Erle's Old Yang

CKH taught another set (which is the one on my DVD) where both partners do the first part form movements against each other.

The Gin Soon two man set (which I haven't put on DVD yet) is closer I think to the YJM one

cheers

Rob

 

It's very interesting how the Gin Soon set has spread so much over there in Europe, since he's only been there a handful of times as far as I know. (He doesn't really care to travel from what I can tell). I get the feeling that more people know his set over there, than here in the US.

 

Hi Rob,

I know you are primarily a Systema guy these days, so I am wondering how the heck you remember all these TCC sets from back in the day?? Do you still practice some of these, or is it all in the head and/or body memory?

 

I always made a habit of videoing training wherever possible. The short two man sets I can pretty much remember straight off. The longer GSC one would take some work to dust off.

You are probably right about the GSC set. He came over two or three times to teach it in the UK as far as I can remember, and his son Fong was over several times too. I don't know many people who learnt the CKH set (I got it from Jim Uglow), or what set/s Yang Sau Cheung taught and to who.

cheers

Rob

 

Good idea. I am thinking on buying a recorder myself for a b-day present. Comes in handy I would think.

Gin also went to Germany only a couple of times, and that two-man set is very prevelant over there as well (Stephan Hagan is one of the students who spread it there as well I believe). I guess that speaks a lot about the little-big-man.

 

Uncle Bill - Erle does the 2-man set that learned from the Yang Sau Chung's lineage. Erle learned it from Chu King Hung and as I know is similar to the Chu Gin Soon. Tian Zhao Lin's set is the same as presented in the Yearning Kung Chen's book that is the same (if I am not wrong) to that that was teached also by Yang Sau Chung.

RobP - As I understand Erle (or someone from who Erle learned his style) modified the Chu King Hung's (Yang Sau Chung) teaching. There is one short (Small San Shou) and long (Large San Shou) 2-person form that he learned (probably from CKH).
Do you think that Gin Soon "Two man set" is more similar to the YJM one than to the EM? In my opinion (from what I saw) EM set derive from the set he learned in the lineage of Yang Sau Chung.
Do you plan to put the "Two man set" or push hands on DVD? It will be great, your videos on TJQ are very good!

 

"There is one short (Small San Shou) and long (Large San Shou) 2-person form that he learned (probably from CKH)."

The small is from CKH, and so is the one on my DVD, though I don't think EM does the latter. I'm not sure his LSS is from YSC.

"Do you think that Gin Soon "Two man set" is more similar to the YJM one than to the EM? "

Yes

"Do you plan to put the "Two man set" or push hands on DVD? It will be great, your videos on TJQ are very good"

Thank you! Maybe push hands, just not got the time at the moment though!

cheers
Rob

 

In my opinion EM (or his teacher) modifyed the 2-person form of Chu King Hung (Yang Sau Chung) and created his Yang Shao Hou's "Old Yang" version that he called Large San Sau. I will verify if the the similarities (and differences) of YSH, YSC, EM and YJM variations. I am not sure that YSC and YJM versions are the same.

RobP - I hope that you will find the time to make the Push Hands DVD!

 

Just to ask the question, because I'm not so sure, but are we positive that Chu King Hung learned the two man set from Yang Sau Chung?

From my understanding, YSC didn't teach that set to too many people (as well as the longfist set), but I could be wrong. Also, I would be interested to know how differently Chu King Hungs form varies from Ip's and CGS's. The reason I ask is there is a student with us currently who trained in the Chu King Hung style from over in Europe, and his form seems to be radically different from ours, as well as seemingly having a different intent within the movements. Perhaps someone who trains or trained in this lineage could elaborate??

 

From my experience ALL the CKH and GSC hand forms are quite different.

I may be wrong but I think I also heard GSC learnt the two man set from his first teacher - but my memory could be playing tricks!

Be interesting to see any Ip / Ma Lee two eprson sets and compare?

cheers

Rob

 

Yes, I also heard that GSC learnt the two man set from his frst teacher (who if I am not wrong was a student of YSC!).
Once I found the names of the Two-person form on the Vincent Chu's web-page and was the same as the form typical for the Yang style. The YJM form is a little different.

It is interesting how the forms of CKH and GSC could be soo different, if both learned from the same teacher. This is typical in TJQ. Is said that TJQ in like the alphabet, all learn the same thing but the their execution is different as is the handwriting. Also "masters" change the art in according to their necessity and understanding!