So the new guy in my office is an old-time Ed Parker kenpo guy with various other influences over the years. We met together the other day to play around. It wasn't sparring per se. It was playful drills: "on this one we hit but don't kick" and "on this one I punch or kick 10 in a row and you defend" and "on this one we grab and hold in clenching range and try to gain dominance" and the like. But the important part is that we were making contact all over the body, from shins to head, and we were resisting each other. That makes a big difference to my question below. And the other important part is that I had a horrible time dealing with his rapid short punches. He loves short range. Apparently it's a kenpo thing. His punches are short and rapid fire. Therein is the question: How do you deal with short punches? Example: If I extend my arm out in the textbook Shotokan reverse punch form, you can "tenkan" around it and get a textbook kotegaeshi or ikkyo. (I think all of us do that for our belt exams. I did.) What if instead I my elbow is tucked close to my body? How are you going to do it now? You could say, "AikiMac, dude, don't be there when it comes." Okay, how are you going to evade all 8 punches? He throws them in bundles. It's not one or two. It's six or eight or ten and he does not extend his arm out very far. Thoughts?
Disregard them, they will have nothing on them. Eating 3 or 4 little pitty-pats to land one solid shot (or throw) is an equation that will work out in your favor sooner or later. If you're afraid of being hit it might freak you out, but if you aren't, you'll walk right through him (unless you're giving up a lot of size/weight in which case you'd likely be screwed regardless).
someone with experience, those little pity pat punches you call will have something on them and if you plan on eating them plan on being knocked out!!! It's hard to say but you can angle off eitherway or shoot for a leg
Make contact - do the wing chun type thing - stick your forearms or hands to his arms and redirect close shots.
Ask your sparring partner how he would deal with them... maybe he will share and you both come out of it learning. As for general advice, what koyo says, "duel him, don't fight him." Learn to move your feet and be a hard to hit target, disrupt his timing, align your body and attack through a kuzushi. In transition you can engage his elbows (visualizing he is holding knives in his hands can help you evade and engage the elbows/shoulders/spine move dynamically). As for long term, the power from short range strikes can be devastating because it is mostly generated "internally" so you don't see a lot of external movement. Learning to generate and deal with internal power can be a life time or more in itself study, but you got to start somewhere. I suggest, if you haven't already, do some cross-training in tai chi. Your sparring partner's fast hands won't seem nearly as fast and you will be more able to unbalance him during his transitions IME.
Last night as I was thinking about this, I thought of the elbow thing too. I'm already in a tai chi chuan class, on Friday mornings. Keep the ideas coming, people! I need 'em!
increase your distance, since he prefers to be in close, make him work to get to you, and then disrupt his distance my closing when he thinks your backing out. Just a thought.
How are your stand-up grappling skills? If you are solid and have some good takedowns then his tendency to want to work in close could work to your advantage.
Hi all, ok, so I will kick off by saying that I am by absolutely no means qualified to give advice, but hey, this is the web.... I can remember my instructors smiling at me when I would complain that my waza would not work from a static position versus the seemingly omnipresent gorilla sized guy all dojos have. The standard response would be something along the lines of 'you have to make it dynamic, get them moving so that it isnt a contest of strength'. Your situation is a little like that, maybe? If you let your mate close on you and start unloading from a position of his choice you are probably going to cop a beating, because he sounds like he is good at that stuff. So I guess try and dictate the angles, timing and range a little yourself, and maybe get your arms up in the way that Koyo talks about and the Yoshinkan folks do, you know that classic sword posture, so that the openings are something he has to work a bit for. Sounds like big fun though! Are you having much luck against him in other ways? paul
I'm an FMA (Balintawak style in particular) practitioner and currently cross-training with a Tracy Kenpo guy. In my opinion what you just said is dangerous in a real fight with a kenpo guys since those "pitty-pats" are in reality aimed to your eyes. And once you got poked 1 time you're pretty much helpless.
Yes, it was like that. Everything we did was his old kenpo drills. "Stand here, and we're going to _____." I was at a disadvantage from the beginning, but, okay, starting from there, how can I get into my aikido zone? Hmm. Probably the only way is to walk away -- that is, put space between us so that when we engage we engage my way. There was one take-down that I repeatedly landed. I don't have a name for it: get behind him, pull his shoulders down, and plop, he falls backwards. And I was quite pleased that he would slip a kick and get a "clothesline" irimi-nage exactly the same way I would do it. I didn't slip 100% of them but I slipped enough to be confident in the movement. It's clearly a viable defense, and he thought so too. Likewise his defense for the various high kicks was the same as mine. That means that aikido is okay against kicks! When we do what the kickers do, hey, we're doing it right! I was often in a position to get yonkyo, but my yonko is not good. Such a pity. Take note amigo: Perfect your yonko. It's a very good move. It works. I want to try sayu-undo next time. Running through the stuff in my head in retrospect, I think there is opportunity to cut through his hands and get sayu-undo. I got a shihonage only once. I'm bothered that I couldn't get it more often. I should be able to get shihoage. I got ikkyo once, and it was a good one, but I failed numerous times. As I said in the opening post, the problem was that his elbow is so often tucked close to his body. No extension. Without extension I don't know how to get ikkyo.
A) Have you ever been poked in the eye? Did it completely disable you? B) Do you think the odds are greater or less trying to hit a very small, very mobile, naturally defended target when you are trying to throw as many strikes as possible in a short amount of time?
Wash through your opponent, striking or cutting through a kuzushi. Movement is like an accordion, enter through him, he backs away unbalanced, enter into him, he backs away unbalanced, constant forward pressure. Learn to use your elbows for atemi. That may have a different name but I've always thought it was just a form of iriminage. You could try, if elbow is tucked, pin his elbow to his body or take his hand and pin it to his thigh. With other hand, attack his eyes and take his backside for strangulation hold or takedown. Just some suggestions.
Hi aikiMac, I have actually had a few pertty similar experiences, particularly since stopping training in aikido for a while and getting involved in other styles. Probably because I have done a lot more aikido than anything else (which isnt much...) whenever I would spar or do randori style practice I would end up reverting to those techniques and a basically aikido approach to moving around. That same shoulder drop that you talked about, ye olde 'clothesline' - like the one you talked about and another one where it is a bit like thrusting a spear through your opponent only you havent got a spear, and my favourite high risk once off tactic, dropping like a big rock right at their feet at the last possible second were the techniques that I fell back on most. I also had trouble 'landing' joint manipulation in the heat of battle, so to speak, unless the other person was already SERIOUSLY off balance or gounded. Hmmm now to think of it perhaps there is a lesson there for me Not to say that it always worked of course, more that they were very simple and direct, and seemed to catch folks by surprise a little bit. Copped many a fist, foot, elbow, etc in the process, but all in the name of fun and adventure! many apologies for my lack of correct names for the techniques, its been a little while..... paul
Yoseikan Aikido and Kenpo I had the pleasure (or pain) of attending Geoff Speakman’s seminar when he was here and trust me, when they are fighting those pitter-patters are anything but light blows. Geoff did a quick open handed backfist to my abdomen is a series and it was enough to wind me. The wonderful thing about kenpoists is that they have a conventional lead with the left approach. That is jab with the left (quick) hand and cross with the right (power) hand. To counter this, simply lead with the right. From here your irimi will not be to the inside, or towards his power hand, but to the outside, and behind his quick hand. Then, most importantly, enter deep, enter fast, enter hard. We do some Yoseikan Aikido drills that I have noticed are very similar to kung fu and FMA drills. These will help you deal with quick hands. The gist of these would be to control his shoulders to control is hands. That is his shoulders move very slowly relative to the speed of his hands, and the power for his hands comes from his shoulders. Regards,
LOL! In other words, "the pointy end of your sword goes in the other guy." And "you have to punch him harder than he punches you." But yes, jesting aside, I had a follow-up post that got lost when the database died, wherein I wrote that irimi is a very good move. It works. When I concentrated on triangular entries some version of an irimi takedown was available, as was ikkyo (from which one can transition to yonko if uke doesn't go down all the way). Maybe there's a reason ikkyo is the "first technique."
hey. being a short guy myself, i have to spar from close range, and i can tell you one of the most annoying things ever if you fight with short range blows is when your opponent uses a long guard, which means you walk into a jab each time you get into range, so you could try that. the problem with short range is actually getting to short range, so you should try interception, be it with a long guard and/or turning your hips a lot when you punch, in order to gain range; a useful tool in this respect is horse stance or an equivalent(with your side facing your opponent, not your torso); what you do is, when you see him move in, advance your front foot a bit and torque your hips as fast as you can while you jab. if you catch him well while he's advancing he'll probably land on his ass, and the torso rotation will let you absorb some of the force should one of his punches land. another thing to do is trapping: since he punches from close range, he has little maneuvering space unless he throws wide hooks or haymaykers, so try to move one of his hands so it blocks the other one(while moving to the opposite side); if you do it correctly he'll either lose time trying to get into punching position or punch himself in the hand, both of which give you time to do nasty things to him.
